Touché
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Touché
Go on then ...... explain how exactly this would have worked ?
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
I completely disagree. I don't think No Deal is or has been a negotiating leverage against the EU as it's pretty obvious it hurts both sides. You can't hold a threat of cutting a nose off if you both have to do it.
The No Deal is purely a threat against Parliament and has been retained as such, it has nothing to do with negotiating with the EU. It has been there the whole time and this is still the best deal we have. Once May effectively lost the GE in terms of a meaningful majority, she has known her party on their own wouldn't vote for any single Brexit deal whether hard or soft because they are too divided. The No Deal is there to threaten Parliament to vote for whatever deal was in front of them. That threat has failed, she needs the rest of Parliament on board, and the rest of Parliament has said take No Deal off the table.
Wow. Presumably your point has been ignored and you're being lambasted for dividing a post into separate quotes?
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
You have no idea what gender I am.
Said the guy with his flies undone and his todger out.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The same way that it is working now. The government works out what they want to do, and Parliament votes on it.
Once it passes Parliament, then revoke Article 50, and negotiate with the EU with Parliament's backing. There could be tweaks and amendments in the two years but it would be a lot stronger position than now where the Prime Minister is sitting there blackmailing the rest of the House of Commons.
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Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Out of order! Grow up.
The EU said they wouldn't negotiate at all until article 50 had been triggered.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
There is a fear I think, that if she says No Deal is off the table, out loud, that another vote of confidence would see some Tory ERG members or the DUP vote against her. Most won't as they hate Corbyn and his form of socialism more than they hate the EU, but enough might. Both Leaders have demonstrated far greater concern for their own Party and who can win the next election, than they have about getting this done in the best way for the country, there is zero trust between Corbyn and May.
It is a position he is taking to put more pressure on her, I don't think he is acting in a particularly honorable way, I think it will backfire on him as well, it won't make him any more popular in the electorate.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
That isn't going against what I said. I said thrash out a deal with Parliament and then use the two years to negotiate with the EU. Once Parliament had agreed the deal, then we have a strong backing.
Thank you - exactly what I was hinting at but TB missed entirely.
I completely disagree.
The negotiating position should be that we want a deal that works for both sides, and failing that, we'll have no deal which harms both sides. If you make it law that you can't leave without a deal, then the EU simply tell you what their terms are - no negotiation necessary, they just tell you what they want, and that's that, you have to take it or withdraw Article 50. How on earth do you think we could negotiate with that?
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
It reads that way to me. See my post quoting Caroline Lucas.
Well it is a bit, because you said
I get your suggestion that you think Parliament should agree what they want before going to the EU, but you said revoke Article 50 and then negotiate with the EU, which they said they wouldn't do.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,857
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
As per Nigel Evans on BBC News, the Conservative Party are entrenched in defining what Brexit means and ruling out a customs union and a single market arrangement – even though this is still leaving the EU, which is all the referendum asked. So it is okay for one party to draw distinct lines in the sand, but when the rest of the house wants a line in the sand against a no deal, they are not serving the public interest.
The Conservatives are obsessed with this leaving the EU that enables them to make these imaginary trade deals around the world that take decades to thrash out, rather than realise a Brexit that leaves the EU fulfilling the referendum result, but leaving us closely aligned with the EU as per the wishes of the 48% is most likely the true democratic solution.
Equally you could say that Corbyn has spent his time in opposition insulting the government, and then expects to be invited to talks after that?
Both parties insult each other as part of politics, that's how it works. Either he wants to discuss a way forward, or he doesn't.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
And it's taken May until yesterday to ask.
Nigel Evans pretty much confirming they're not prepared to listen on BBC News. They're not prepared to budge on No Deal, they're not going to countenance a customs union or single market arrangements. Its pure PR to make it look like they're asking for cross party support / dialogue when they're intransigent.
What a sham and people are buying it.
If you are prepared to compromise you have to be prepared to change your stance, it's clear from all the leading Tory statements today that isn't going to happen. She is going to tweak her deal and it will get voted down again at the end of the month.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
I agree. Still, it's got Amber Rudd rattled, so good on him.
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