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[Help] A request for advice concerning a bizarre car 'accident' and insurance kerfuffle



Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patreon
Oct 8, 2003
49,331
Faversham
The Excess Protection as a separate policy from ULR does not indicate whether you were to blame for the incident or not. All it is effectively doing is amending your main policy, to one with a nil excess rather than the £250 or whatever level you took. It will therefore have no bearing on whether you will have your no claim discount reinstated.
Any ULR policy which would cover the cost of a hire car while yours was being repaired, the excess (if you didn't have the separate cover) and other out of pocket expenses is the one where you would obtain a clearer indication of fault, as if your ULR Insurer recovered the costs then it is a clear indication that you were not at fault.

Just wanted to clarify rather than getting your hopes up unduly.

No, I understand, and thanks. I don't really have knee-high hopes though, TBH....I will await the next reply from them. Your comments and those of others have been very helpful - not least in preventing me turning into a ranting nitwit without any visible or legally credible leg to stand on.

A bugger, though. On the bright side, everyone who has ever crossed me in a way that has had impact on me has later come a cropper, as I may once have posted in another thread, without my lifting a finger. Weird, but true. :lolol::thumbsup:
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patreon
Oct 8, 2003
49,331
Faversham
I am not an expert Harry, but it seems you have been unlucky here, and fallen victim to insurers more interested in making money than protecting their client.

With hindsight, the offer of the other party to repair your damaged car may have been better, but of course risky in many ways. Hope you get some sort of justice.

Cheers! :thumbsup:
 


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,595
Cumbria
When they say that the van is registered to someone else up north - have they/you double checked this to make sure they haven't made a transposition error of some nature? Do you know that if you have good cause, and for a small fee (less than the cost of a pint I think) you can get the registered details from DVLA yourself? Don't know if they would consider this a good reason, but might be worth asking. The forms will be online somewhere. Also, nowadays, I thought everything was connected - when I last paid car tax online, the online system checked that I had an MOT and was insured without me having to show anyone any documents (I think, can't quite recall quite how it happened as it was a few years ago now, but I remember thinking it was a bit scary) - so surely your insurers should be able to get that information and find out who exactly insures whom in relation to the van, as they obviously don't think it is the owner.

I must say I'm surprised that your insurers haven't been able to get a response from the other vehicle's insurers. And to not keep on demanding a reply from them is a bit negligent I would have thought. There must be some sort of insurer's code that they adhere to between themselves? Who are the other insurers?

Looking at that overhead photo, it's quite a sharp bend, so she must have had to slow down considerably - and then it's a couple of car lengths before she would have hit you. Looking at this from your insurer's point of view and their obvious wish to bump your premiums up, they might be thinking 'if he pulled out, and then she turned the corner slowly at about the same time, and was moving slowly, he may have had time to carry on crossing in front of her before she travelled two lengths, slowly - especially if he was already further forward than the dark grey car in your photo (which I presume you were if she hit your door, and not the front wing)'. If they're starting from the point of view that they reckon you pulled out in front of her, they may be putting this uppermost in their assessment and then reading the information in the way they want to so it fits their desired answer? Have you explained to them why you stopped - was there something preventing you from pulling forwards out of her way, or did it just feel the best thing to do at the time?

It does seem an odd layout having an exit so close to the main way in, I wonder how many other bumps there have been there?
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patreon
Oct 8, 2003
49,331
Faversham
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Respones inline.........

When they say that the van is registered to someone else up north - have they/you double checked this to make sure they haven't made a transposition error of some nature? Do you know that if you have good cause, and for a small fee (less than the cost of a pint I think) you can get the registered details from DVLA yourself?

I will look into that.....cheers!

Don't know if they would consider this a good reason, but might be worth asking. The forms will be online somewhere. Also, nowadays, I thought everything was connected - when I last paid car tax online, the online system checked that I had an MOT and was insured without me having to show anyone any documents (I think, can't quite recall quite how it happened as it was a few years ago now, but I remember thinking it was a bit scary) - so surely your insurers should be able to get that information and find out who exactly insures whom in relation to the van, as they obviously don't think it is the owner.

I must say I'm surprised that your insurers haven't been able to get a response from the other vehicle's insurers. And to not keep on demanding a reply from them is a bit negligent I would have thought. There must be some sort of insurer's code that they adhere to between themselves? Who are the other insurers?

Indeed. They have been very slow. Not sure about other insurers (I was told the name but forget now) - I just left it all to my insurers to sort out, which is what they are paid to do....

Looking at that overhead photo, it's quite a sharp bend, so she must have had to slow down considerably - and then it's a couple of car lengths before she would have hit you. Looking at this from your insurer's point of view and their obvious wish to bump your premiums up, they might be thinking 'if he pulled out, and then she turned the corner slowly at about the same time, and was moving slowly, he may have had time to carry on crossing in front of her before she travelled two lengths, slowly - especially if he was already further forward than the dark grey car in your photo (which I presume you were if she hit your door, and not the front wing)'. If they're starting from the point of view that they reckon you pulled out in front of her, they may be putting this uppermost in their assessment and then reading the information in the way they want to so it fits their desired answer? Have you explained to them why you stopped - was there something preventing you from pulling forwards out of her way, or did it just feel the best thing to do at the time?

Yes, I explained everything. Seems like they are not listening. I stopped when I saw her car, which though moving slowly was/would be soon giving me insufficient room to complete my turn. When this happens one or other car has to stop and back up. Instead this driver just kept on going, slowly, into me. I have explained this more than once but they first didn't listen, then claimed I could not prove this. Which is true. The crazy thing is, of course, that it is not my word against the other driver.....the other driver has said nothing because the insurer has failed to make contact with her (or him - looks like car was the boyfriend's). It is my word against....my insurer!


It does seem an odd layout having an exit so close to the main way in, I wonder how many other bumps there have been there?

Good question.....I may ask the supermarket....all the best, and thanks :thumbsup:
 


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,595
Cumbria
I wonder if she was already looking ahead for a parking space, without actually looking where she was actually going? I hate supermarket car parks.
 




Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Aug 25, 2011
63,371
Withdean area
I thought DVLA removed the ability for an individual to get a car owners details? Data protection, to prevent stalkers, etc.

A driver drove into my car a year ago, from a side turning. Unluckily for him, we shared the same recovery guy, who revealed to me that the culprit was going to lie and give a false version of events. I was also lucky in that an independent witness appeared on the same stretch of road a minute later, who was prepared to help and noted our crash vehicle positions.

Those events made me realise that a dash-cam can be a great investment, but I haven't got round to it yet.
 


Shropshire Seagull

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2004
8,477
Telford
I have a dash cam but hope I never need to use it .....

Insurance claims are a real ball-ache but as already mentioned, it's a no claims bonus not a no blame bonus.

If you have the name and address of he other driver you can issue a direct claim on them via the small claims court for the receipted damage. She then has the choice of settling privately or passing on to her insurers. If this is successful, you will then be able to reimburse your insurer and reverse the claim to get back your no claims bonus if not protected.
 


tiberious

New member
Nov 3, 2009
840
The earth
From my own dealings they still up your premium if you are responsible or not. I had an accident where the other drives and his insurance admitted responsibility.My insurance paid me but then upped my premium stating they were waiting for the money back from the other company and i would be refunded when they got this some months later they refunded one months extra premium only. They then upped my premium despite my no claims bonus stating statistically as i has been involved in one accident ( not my fault ) i would be likely to be involved in another. This was Hastings Direct and I then cancelled my policy and found a better deal. Insurance companies seem unwilling to fight any claims and just seem to end up each drivers insurance paying their client then upping their premiums.
 




surrey jim

Not in Surrey
Aug 2, 2005
18,085
Bevendean
I thought DVLA removed the ability for an individual to get a car owners details? Data protection, to prevent stalkers, etc.

A driver drove into my car a year ago, from a side turning. Unluckily for him, we shared the same recovery guy, who revealed to me that the culprit was going to lie and give a false version of events. I was also lucky in that an independent witness appeared on the same stretch of road a minute later, who was prepared to help and noted our crash vehicle positions.

Those events made me realise that a dash-cam can be a great investment, but I haven't got round to it yet.

[MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] and [MENTION=1200]Harry Wilson's tackle[/MENTION] I would well recommend getting a dash cam. I was involved in a rear end shunt on the M42 last Summer. To cut a long story short, the fact I was able to send a video of the incident to insurance company saved me my excess and proved that the other vehicle was involved and liable. The other driver had claimed to their insurance company that I already had damage to my car and put brakes on hard, in free flowing traffic, to engineer a crash. The video showed me slowing down in traffic and him going straight into the back.

They cost something like £120 which was much less than my excess.
 


biddles911

New member
May 12, 2014
348
From my own dealings they still up your premium if you are responsible or not. I had an accident where the other drives and his insurance admitted responsibility.My insurance paid me but then upped my premium stating they were waiting for the money back from the other company and i would be refunded when they got this some months later they refunded one months extra premium only. They then upped my premium despite my no claims bonus stating statistically as i has been involved in one accident ( not my fault ) i would be likely to be involved in another. This was Hastings Direct and I then cancelled my policy and found a better deal. Insurance companies seem unwilling to fight any claims and just seem to end up each drivers insurance paying their client then upping their premiums.

Hastings Direct are possibly the worst company I’ve ever dealt with; shambolic administration and totally incompetent so I wouldn’t draw too many conclusions from that experience.

My daughter used them and had an accident (totally her fault and admitted as such). We were still dealing with the issues a year later including two court summons direct to my daughter from the other party as they couldn’t get a proper response from Hastings!

Try LV. They’re competitive and efficient and reduced my premium last time round despite having had an accident (not my fault though).

P.s. I’m not on commission either!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


Don't get me started on the robbing Insurance companies...grrr...ABout five years ago my car was written off whilst parked in a street all legal. It got hit side on by a removal truck and despite the owner admitting liability, me having fully comp insurance i still had to go through legal team to file a claim for getting back my no claims discount. I did all that, it was accepted as a no fault claim but still my next years premiums went up 20%..Like someone else here said, they take this attitude that once you have an accident (even if you are a mile away from the car when it happens!!!) you are more likely to have another..Oh , and the insurance company..Hastings Direct...
 




Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Aug 25, 2011
63,371
Withdean area
[MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] and [MENTION=1200]Harry Wilson's tackle[/MENTION] I would well recommend getting a dash cam. I was involved in a rear end shunt on the M42 last Summer. To cut a long story short, the fact I was able to send a video of the incident to insurance company saved me my excess and proved that the other vehicle was involved and liable. The other driver had claimed to their insurance company that I already had damage to my car and put brakes on hard, in free flowing traffic, to engineer a crash. The video showed me slowing down in traffic and him going straight into the back.

They cost something like £120 which was much less than my excess.

Hi. Thanks for your advice.

Glad that worked out well for you. Dashcams must be a nightmare for liars/fraudsters :lolol:
 


Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Aug 25, 2011
63,371
Withdean area
Don't get me started on the robbing Insurance companies...grrr...ABout five years ago my car was written off whilst parked in a street all legal. It got hit side on by a removal truck and despite the owner admitting liability, me having fully comp insurance i still had to go through legal team to file a claim for getting back my no claims discount. I did all that, it was accepted as a no fault claim but still my next years premiums went up 20%..Like someone else here said, they take this attitude that once you have an accident (even if you are a mile away from the car when it happens!!!) you are more likely to have another..Oh , and the insurance company..Hastings Direct...

I always used to chase the cheapest annual premium. I still choose motor and home insurers with one of lowest premiums, but now opt for those with a proven great customer service record including in dealing with claims (www.which.co.uk give the full independent low down). This proved a godsend with a motor claim made to LV and home claims to John Lewis - both were fully supportive, efficient and believing. My wife was stuck with an awful motor insurer Debenhams for a couple of years, which proved to be a cash cow to them ... constantly coming up with extra charges once she was contractually bound.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patreon
Oct 8, 2003
49,331
Faversham
I have a dash cam but hope I never need to use it .....

Insurance claims are a real ball-ache but as already mentioned, it's a no claims bonus not a no blame bonus.

If you have the name and address of he other driver you can issue a direct claim on them via the small claims court for the receipted damage. She then has the choice of settling privately or passing on to her insurers. If this is successful, you will then be able to reimburse your insurer and reverse the claim to get back your no claims bonus if not protected.

Brilliant - cheers! I do...
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patreon
Oct 8, 2003
49,331
Faversham
I always used to chase the cheapest annual premium. I still choose motor and home insurers with one of lowest premiums, but now opt for those with a proven great customer service record including in dealing with claims (www.which.co.uk give the full independent low down). This proved a godsend with a motor claim made to LV and home claims to John Lewis - both were fully supportive, efficient and believing. My wife was stuck with an awful motor insurer Debenhams for a couple of years, which proved to be a cash cow to them ... constantly coming up with extra charges once she was contractually bound.

Cheers.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patreon
Oct 8, 2003
49,331
Faversham
Thought I'd update on this. After sending a powerpoint display with photos of cars driving in and out of where I was hit, with a dialogue explaining how the circumstances by which I was hit could not possibly include my driving in front of a car given insufficient time to stop, and after my clownish insurerers finally located the other driver (who apparently tried to launch a claim blaming me, three months after the event) my insurerers (who turned out also to be the other driver's insurer) sent me a letter last week to say they had found the other driver at fault, so no nasty consequences for me. Thanks for all the good advice earlier this year :thumbsup:
 


studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,553
On the Border
Thought I'd update on this. After sending a powerpoint display with photos of cars driving in and out of where I was hit, with a dialogue explaining how the circumstances by which I was hit could not possibly include my driving in front of a car given insufficient time to stop, and after my clownish insurerers finally located the other driver (who apparently tried to launch a claim blaming me, three months after the event) my insurerers (who turned out also to be the other driver's insurer) sent me a letter last week to say they had found the other driver at fault, so no nasty consequences for me. Thanks for all the good advice earlier this year :thumbsup:

Good to hear
 


Sirnormangall

Well-known member
Sep 21, 2017
2,937
Thought I'd update on this. After sending a powerpoint display with photos of cars driving in and out of where I was hit, with a dialogue explaining how the circumstances by which I was hit could not possibly include my driving in front of a car given insufficient time to stop, and after my clownish insurerers finally located the other driver (who apparently tried to launch a claim blaming me, three months after the event) my insurerers (who turned out also to be the other driver's insurer) sent me a letter last week to say they had found the other driver at fault, so no nasty consequences for me. Thanks for all the good advice earlier this year :thumbsup:
Well done - another success for “death by PowerPoint”!
 





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