Hampster Gull
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,462
You have to give it to Syriza, they are taking this to the wire. I hope they dont trip up as this could get very ugly
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Greece crisis: Europe on edge over snap election
- Thread starter TomandJerry
- Start date
You have to give it to Syriza, they are taking this to the wire. I hope they dont trip up as this could get very ugly
TomandJerry
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2013
- 11,598
- Thread starter
- #482
"Leftist supporters chant slogans during a demonstration in Athens calling for Greece’s exit from the eurozone:"
Chicken Runner61
We stand where we want!
- May 20, 2007
- 4,609
I don't blame the Greeks for this end game - In or Out of the Euro or Europe they are stuffed either way. Staying in will definitely mean years of austerity with little or no future for them or their children and most of them never gained from all the borrowing. The ones that did took their money out of the banking system a long time ago .
What would you do if your savings and pensions were about to disappear?
Having a referendum absolves the current government of making the wrong choice over what to do.
What would you do if your savings and pensions were about to disappear?
Having a referendum absolves the current government of making the wrong choice over what to do.
yxee
Well-known member
I don't understand this. Having a referendum absolves the current government? You can't erase from history their months of brinkmanship and headline-grabbing. Calling the referendum next week doesn't even make sense, as capital controls have already started and they will potentially miss the IMF payment tomorrow. If they were intending on giving the Greek people a say in in/out of the Euro, why didn't they do it two weeks ago?
If the referendum absolves the government of any responsibility, then that responsibility is transferred to the people.
Chicken Runner61
We stand where we want!
- May 20, 2007
- 4,609
Having a referendum means they can say whatever happens after that the people decided. What did you think they were going to do they were never going to be able to pay it from the Greek bank account their only hope was another loan with the amount owned and interest racking up making it even more unlikely to be paid. They could have given a referendum months ago when they got in power but that would have been stupid politically then. Cameron's not doing anything different with regard to us in Europe - he's only giving us a vote to appease his members and absolve himself of the aftermath of it goes wrong either way. No one in power gives the public the vote on anything unless they have to or they don't like or can't foretell the outcome.
All those that 'worked' for the public sector, and those that retired young, all those that paid less tax than they should have - they all benefited, and I imagine they too will be highly effected by what's happening, and even those that aren't, their children will be. Of course there will be those that got away scot-free, but they're in the minority.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,332
lets be clear, the referendum is not for in or out of Euro (much less the EU). its to ask if the people of Greece accept the terms by the lenders to provide a payment. so really it is absolving the government of making a decision - to accept the terms and row back on their election promises, or not accept terms and face bankruptcy. its true as a consequence that a no vote leads on a path towards exiting the Euro, but there's plenty of scope for everyone to wiggle through an alternative. also if a yes vote would be interesting to see if the current government can remain in power.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
Further proof of the EU trying to topple the current Greek government:
"The last and most damaging of the leaks was given to Robert Peston of the BBC on the morning of Sunday June 28th. The choice of both media institution and reporter is significant: Robert Peston’s reporting of Northern Rock’s liquidity problems in September 2007 famously caused a run on the bank. And Peston did it again. He reported IN ADVANCE of the ECB governing council’s decision that the ECB was going to “turn off” ELA. By the time the ECB announced its decision, some hours later, Greek ATMs were rapidly running out of cash.
Where the leak to Robert Peston came from we do not know. But front-running the ECB governing council’s decision is tantamount to spreading rumors to start a bank run, which is illegal in most Eurozone countries (though apparently not in Germany). And since the Eurosystem is responsible for ensuring financial stability, deliberately starting a bank run is a major breach of the mandate of both the ECB and the national central banks. Whoever leaked this should be summarily dismissed.*
Anyway, wherever it came from, it was clearly intended to force Greece to impose a bank holiday and capital controls. And it achieved its objective."
*my highlighting.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2015/06/29/the-day-the-euro-died/2/
"The last and most damaging of the leaks was given to Robert Peston of the BBC on the morning of Sunday June 28th. The choice of both media institution and reporter is significant: Robert Peston’s reporting of Northern Rock’s liquidity problems in September 2007 famously caused a run on the bank. And Peston did it again. He reported IN ADVANCE of the ECB governing council’s decision that the ECB was going to “turn off” ELA. By the time the ECB announced its decision, some hours later, Greek ATMs were rapidly running out of cash.
Where the leak to Robert Peston came from we do not know. But front-running the ECB governing council’s decision is tantamount to spreading rumors to start a bank run, which is illegal in most Eurozone countries (though apparently not in Germany). And since the Eurosystem is responsible for ensuring financial stability, deliberately starting a bank run is a major breach of the mandate of both the ECB and the national central banks. Whoever leaked this should be summarily dismissed.*
Anyway, wherever it came from, it was clearly intended to force Greece to impose a bank holiday and capital controls. And it achieved its objective."
*my highlighting.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2015/06/29/the-day-the-euro-died/2/
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
The current thinking is that Greek banks will not re-open without being re-capitalised but seeing as most Greek banks are effectively in debt - their biggest assets are taxes due back on accrued losses which means that savings in the bank will be taken and converted into shares. This was okay when they did it for Cyprus as they capped it at 100,000 euros and most of those hit were Russians who weren't Cypriot voters. It's a different kettle of fish with Greece. The scale of indebtedness means that savers, pensioners, ordinary folk will lose savings and with the 60 euro a day limit essential services like petrol, medicines and household bills won't get paid. In all likelihood, people will die.
I know Greece has lived beyond its means for too long but I'm staggered that the response from the EU is 'tough titty'. There is a mighty big culpability too on the part of the creditors for their part in all this. And when Putin shows up as a white knight and plays his games, I think in a few years time the creditors might well rue their pig-headedness. Getting Russia out of Western Europe could end up costing us all a lot more.
I know Greece has lived beyond its means for too long but I'm staggered that the response from the EU is 'tough titty'. There is a mighty big culpability too on the part of the creditors for their part in all this. And when Putin shows up as a white knight and plays his games, I think in a few years time the creditors might well rue their pig-headedness. Getting Russia out of Western Europe could end up costing us all a lot more.
The Merry Prankster
Pactum serva
This, this and thrice this.
TomandJerry
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2013
- 11,598
- Thread starter
- #491
As if the stakes were not high enough, Greece is threatening a court injunction against the EU institutions to block any exit from the eurozone,*according to the Daily Telegraph:
“The Greek government will make use of all our legal rights,” said the finance minister,Yanis Varoufakis.
“We are taking advice and will certainly consider an injunction at the European Court of Justice. The EU treaties make no provision for euro exit and we refuse to accept it. Our membership is not negotiable,“ he told the Telegraph.
“The Greek government will make use of all our legal rights,” said the finance minister,Yanis Varoufakis.
“We are taking advice and will certainly consider an injunction at the European Court of Justice. The EU treaties make no provision for euro exit and we refuse to accept it. Our membership is not negotiable,“ he told the Telegraph.
Papa Lazarou
Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
They should never have been granted membership in the first place.
In that they never met the criteria for entry into the currency union. It would have been far kinder on everyone for them to have stayed on the outside.
Exactly this, the Germans and others cooked the books to get them in, what exactly did they expect from the Greeks, diligent work ethics, next they will be saying that the Italians are corrupt and the Spanish take long siestas ................
TomandJerry
Well-known member
- Oct 1, 2013
- 11,598
- Thread starter
- #495
Alexis Tsipras prepared to concede ground - FT report
BREAKING:
The Financial Times is reporting that Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras now appears to be conceding ground in an attempt to get a deal done:
jamie the seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 27, 2011
- 2,803
they will not let Greece leave so will do a deal.....
Meh. Heard it all before.
I totally agree with [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION] that the Germans appear to have forgotten what the EU project was all about. However it is easy for us to get preachy when our portion of Greek debt is trivial - less than the Dutch yet we have 4 times more people:
And as for Tsipras, I still think their decision to immediately reemploy 4,000 public sector workers was disgraceful. I know he got elected on an anti-austerity mandate, but NO politician delivers on everything - surely he could easily have re-employed 1,000 with a promise of more jobs as the economy grew. Instead, it seems there isn't enough money to run ambulances any more.
I totally agree with [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION] that the Germans appear to have forgotten what the EU project was all about. However it is easy for us to get preachy when our portion of Greek debt is trivial - less than the Dutch yet we have 4 times more people:
And as for Tsipras, I still think their decision to immediately reemploy 4,000 public sector workers was disgraceful. I know he got elected on an anti-austerity mandate, but NO politician delivers on everything - surely he could easily have re-employed 1,000 with a promise of more jobs as the economy grew. Instead, it seems there isn't enough money to run ambulances any more.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,332
last night a Yes rally was apparently larger than the previous night No rally. i also read that the Greeks both submitted request for a new bailout of 29Bn euro and (seperately) offered to suspend the referendum if the terms of the current bailout can be deferred a few weeks. so they are using the vote as a bargaining position, while also running off to seek new loans.
farcical.
farcical.
The Spanish
Well-known member
Wouldn't happen in Germany
