Motorists may face penalty for overtaking cyclists on some city roads

Paul Reids Sock · May 19, 2014

Stat Brother said:
T'is amazing how the actual facts can change a story.

It won't be the busiest roads.
It'll be the 'rat run' road that are either impractical for car use, or roads where the alternative route is more suitable for cars but perhaps a couple of minutes longer.
Thereby making the roads safer for all not to mention quicker where cyclists aren't impeding the almighty car.

I can see why, on paper, it looking like it could work.
I understand why in practice it's unlikely to work.
Sadly the self-righteous brigade on both sides would rather kill or be killed, than change their thinking.

For what it's worth I applaud any 'different' thinking that might make cyclists safer, thereby not ruining their lives and those of the driver/family having to live the consequences of the accident, incident, or manslaughter.

There's absolutely no point discussing your myopic opinions on 'so many cyclists' as you're so bigoted it's laughable.

I'm so bigoted it's laughable?

Sorry I seem to forget that my opinions and experiences have suddenly become yours. In the experience I have had as a pedestrian and a driver is that so many I have come across do not care for other road users and ride badly

That isn't to say that I haven't also come across a lot of good ones.

I had even admitted I hadn't read the articles and when seeing it was just on some roads that I was wrong

Don't start a thread just so you can try and belittle other peoples ideas and think that cyclists are better than drivers - they aren't. Both are equally to blame for a lot of the problems but it is he car drivers that seem to get the brunt of the blame and when someone tries to blame a cyclist they are shot down. It's ridiculous. All road users should need some form of test to prove that they are of an adequate standard to be I the road. That is my opinion, challenge it if you wish but dont talk to me like that because we don't agree on something

vegster · May 19, 2014

Stat Brother said:
Yet another thread requiring a little bicycle icon.

Road safety proposal by Department for Transport would give cyclists priority, restricting cars to 15mph with potential £100 fine.

About time to.
Clearly the bicycle is the only way forward, now we will be able to legally ride in the middle of the road.
I'm glad I don't pay road tax!!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ists-city-roads-transport-government-proposal

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-overtaking-bicycles-set-cut-road-deaths.html

I've just listened to a man from the Advanced Drivers Assoc saying this wouldn't work because:-

'Drivers are too stupid to understand a road sign'.

Not the greatest defence.

It might also be an idea to restrict cyclists to 15 MPH too, once they get in to the Twenties they seem to find stopping or slowing for junctions/traffic lights/pedestrian crossings an awful chore.

brighton bluenose · May 19, 2014

Paul Reids Sock said:
I'm so bigoted it's laughable?

Sorry I seem to forget that my opinions and experiences have suddenly become yours. In the experience I have had as a pedestrian and a driver is that so many I have come across do not care for other road users and ride badly

That isn't to say that I haven't also come across a lot of good ones.

I had even admitted I hadn't read the articles and when seeing it was just on some roads that I was wrong

Don't start a thread just so you can try and belittle other peoples ideas and think that cyclists are better than drivers - they aren't. Both are equally to blame for a lot of the problems but it is he car drivers that seem to get the brunt of the blame and when someone tries to blame a cyclist they are shot down. It's ridiculous. All road users should need some form of test to prove that they are of an adequate standard to be I the road. That is my opinion, challenge it if you wish but dont talk to me like that because we don't agree on something

Drivers get the blame? REALLY?!

Whenever this subject gets debated whether on NSC, Argus forums or wherever I get the impression that virtually all cyclists are either riding on the pavement, jumping red lights and riding down one way streets - often, it would seem, all at once!!

Wrong-Direction · May 19, 2014

Fu** this! If a cyclist is in the way on a bendy country road when there's an empty pavement next to it then I don't feel sorry when they end up under a bus!

Stat Brother · May 20, 2014

vegster said:
At least drivers realise that a red light means " Stop "

Would that be ALL drivers?

Stat Brother · May 20, 2014

wellquickwoody said:
I have only read the first post but.......

As a driver and a cyclist, some cyclists are complete CJTC's! I was out cycling yesterday, some other txxts were riding 3 abreast, not only illegal but guaranteed to wind up drivers.

And if 15mph limits are brought in then boxxocks to 'em, my car was not designed to pootle round town at those speeds, my motorcycle will blow its clutch into a thousand pieces with prolonged use at those speeds!

I guess the fella from the Advanced Drivers Assoc was right after all.

If you actively choose a road that had a 15 mph limit but are strangely unable to control a geared vehicle at that speed, I'd have to wonder what category of driver you were.

Some drivers are also CJTC's unfortunately for cyclists, pedestrians, their families and friends, they are behind the wheel of a 2 tonne hermetically sealed death machine.

Stat Brother · May 20, 2014

beorhthelm said:
So cyclist have to be encouraged to user safer roads and routes... and im the one that needs speaking to slowly? the article didnt exactly stress the purpose as youhave put, it just seems mindnumbingly obvious to take a safer back street route in the first place, and such routes dont need making safer as that not where problems are. i do sympathsise with cyclist as i used to cycle alot myself (though not in London ). you point out Elephant, i used to live there and there's cycle paths/routes all around i cant see why anyone would stay on the main road. scary enough in a car.

I have no idea where you stand on the 'Is Jeremy Clarkson a knob', debate.
But it's odd how Clarkson is roundly vilified for being an arse, but when it comes to running cyclists over he's inadvertently championed by those who despise.
If these 'safer' roads were in fact safer I'm sure they would be used, but they're not as perfectly demonstrated by Mr Clarkson (not a knob) when he filmed himself harranging a cyclist while driving down a narrow street.

beorhthelm said:
of course that would be the drivers fault then. im thinking of what i saw last week where only a pedestiran shouting at the cyclist to not be a prick stopped him from slamming into a car indicating turning left, and at the same spot another cyclist pushing through the pedestians on a red light despite the road ahead being blocked by a coach anyway. i recall another junction in the City near Morgate where there's been a fatality, would regularly see cyclists racing up the inside of the que ignoring the car/lorry that clearly showing its going left. makes me shudder as i can see how easy and vulnerable the cyclist is, yet some will wilfully put themself in danger to save a few second on their journey (hey, just like some of us car drivers)

Some cyclists are CJTC's as are some drivers.
I have no idea why you'd put yourself in a 'kill or be killed' situation against a car, when all you have is a relatively pointless helmet for protection.

Stat Brother · May 20, 2014

Paul Reids Sock said:
I'm so bigoted it's laughable?

Sorry I seem to forget that my opinions and experiences have suddenly become yours. In the experience I have had as a pedestrian and a driver is that so many I have come across do not care for other road users and ride badly

That isn't to say that I haven't also come across a lot of good ones.

I had even admitted I hadn't read the articles and when seeing it was just on some roads that I was wrong

Don't start a thread just so you can try and belittle other peoples ideas and think that cyclists are better than drivers - they aren't. Both are equally to blame for a lot of the problems but it is he car drivers that seem to get the brunt of the blame and when someone tries to blame a cyclist they are shot down. It's ridiculous. All road users should need some form of test to prove that they are of an adequate standard to be I the road. That is my opinion, challenge it if you wish but dont talk to me like that because we don't agree on something

I put it to you that you haven't come across a lot of good cyclists.
I bet the majority of cyclists you see are good, but they don't register.

What you see in a minority of idiots, but that's not stopping you from branding everybody as the same.

Might I suggest when out and about, this week, you look for people driving while on the phone or eating/drinking.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if those numbers were equal to the poor cyclists, will you then be branding MOST drivers as idiots?

After years on NSC I'm fully aware of how to bring a cycling thread to the masses.
All the myopic Clarkson wannabes come rushing out pointing the finger, there's no point reasoning and debating until the stupidity of their argument is there for all to see.
Luckily comments like [MENTION=27125]Wrong-Direction[/MENTION]'s pop up making it easier to ascend to the moral high ground, where I'm sure I'll see you if the choice is that or siding with WD.

You are right all road users carry a responsibility but needless death of people will continue all the time one camp is pointing at the other saying 'they are to blame'.

W.C. · May 20, 2014

Ahh another thread on cycling that only goes to reinforce the impression I get that most people, when they get behind the wheels of a car are selfish, arrogant *****.

#teampedestrian

Notters · May 20, 2014

Seagull on the wing said:
Hmmm! Show me a cyclist who understands traffic lights..instead of jumping up on the pavement get in moving traffic then turn left...or cyclists who ride down country lanes in groups of 3/4 instead of single file,cyclist who do not overtake on the inside when a car is turning left...still it's good for my points score...scaring the sh1te out of a cyclist is worth 5 points

Pretty sure I see more cars going through red lights than bikes these days.

Triggaaar · May 20, 2014

Stat Brother said:
The point is to encourage more cyclist to use these safer routes, thereby taking them away from being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

You'd think the fact that it's safer would be all the encouragement they need. But no, let's stop the cars instead. It's like our failing public transport systems - instead of trying to improve them, just make it more expensive for people to use cars so that they have no choice.

Oh and who's to say the driver hasn't suddenly decided to turn left without signalling or checking his mirrors, we've all done it.

Cars kill people - FACT.
Cars pollute our planet - FACT.
Why they haven't been completely banned already I don't know.

MarioOrlandi · May 20, 2014

There are a couple of books available from HMSO, They are called "The Highway Code" and "Roadcraft" both are very interesting reads which set out and explains the "Laws of the Road" If and it's a BIG IF all road users adhere to them we would not be having this discussion.
All road users will at times take a "calculated risk" but deliberately driving or cycling through a red light comes under the terms of "frigging stupid" This comes down to the motorist not paying attention or rather concentrating on his/her driving, and the cyclist being to lazy to stop and start off again. I belong to the IAM and the representative was correct, most drivers cannot read a road sign, passing a driving test in what ever form does not make one an expert or a latter day Nigel Mansell. Experience makes us a better road user (in some cases) but we all pick up bad habits. The IAM teach you good driving practice and bring you up to Police Driving Standards

jackanada · May 20, 2014

vegster said:
At least drivers realise that a red light means " Stop "

Studies show that in London (anecdotally the worst for offenders) over 90% of cyclists obey the traffic signal, and the non-compliant numbers include those who take a slight jump to get a safe amount of road space and those using the old motorists mantra of 'blushing amber'.
Further the levels of non-compliance are higher when traffic levels are low.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/traffic-note-8-cycling-red-lights.pdf

jackanada · May 20, 2014

Wrong-Direction said:
Fu** this! If a cyclist is in the way on a bendy country road when there's an empty pavement next to it then I don't feel sorry when they end up under a bus!

The old 'Death is an appropriate punishment for inconvenience' gag.
Do you not also complin about cyclists on pavements?

jackanada · May 20, 2014

MarioOrlandi said:
and bring you up to Police Driving Standards

If what I see from the police counts as good driving then good is a worryingly low threshold.

vegster · May 20, 2014

jackanada said:
Studies show that in London (anecdotally the worst for offenders) over 90% of cyclists obey the traffic signal, and the non-compliant numbers include those who take a slight jump to get a safe amount of road space and those using the old motorists mantra of 'blushing amber'.
Further the levels of non-compliance are higher when traffic levels are low.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/traffic-note-8-cycling-red-lights.pdf

I find that quite odd, in Hove quite often more cyclists go through red lights and pedestrian crossings than stop. Quite often I go to cross on a pedestrian crossing and see a cyclist coming, make eye contact and then they quickly look down or away, that's my signal to know he isn't going to stop or slow. Mind you, most cyclists are clever enough to know that they can't jump the red lights at Grand Avenue too often without getting injured.

MarioOrlandi · May 20, 2014

vegster said:
Mind you, most cyclists are clever enough to know that they can't jump the red lights at Grand Avenue too often without getting injured.

Like it

jackanada · May 20, 2014

Cyclist KSIs - mainly the motorists fault.

Every time you perpetuate the myth of all cycists being irresponsible you are encouraging an attitude that leads to deaths.

Gwylan · May 20, 2014

jackanada said:
Studies show that in London (anecdotally the worst for offenders) over 90% of cyclists obey the traffic signal, and the non-compliant numbers include those who take a slight jump to get a safe amount of road space and those using the old motorists mantra of 'blushing amber'.

I cycle from Victoria to TCR most mornings and, last year, I spent a couple of months counting up the number of cyclists I saw, and the number that went through red lights: I worked out that about 84% of cyclists stopped at lights, so that's roughly in line with the study you quote. I cycled in different times, ranging from 7.00 until 9.30, so it wouldn't always have been the same people.

One interesting observation though: 99% of the cyclists who went through red lights were male. In two months, just two women did it

jackanada · May 20, 2014

Gwylan said:
I cycle from Victoria to TCR most mornings and, last year, I spent a couple of months counting up the number of cyclists I saw, and the number that went through red lights: I worked out that about 84% of cyclists stopped at lights, so that's roughly in line with the study you quote. I cycled in different times, ranging from 7.00 until 9.30, so it wouldn't always have been the same people.

One interesting observation though: 99% of the cyclists who went through red lights were male. In two months, just two women did it

Study did show greater % of men jumping lights, though nowhere near the disparity you might imagine. It also tried to ask the question as to whether their was a difference in red-light jumping depending on the direction taken past the light (left,ahead or right) - though the methodology for that part is seriously flawed so while it's an interesting question there is no answer as yet.

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