Future of North East football!

Stat Brother · May 2, 2017

Not really worthy of a specific thread, but this weeks Football Weekly contained some mindblowing facts about Sunderland:-

- 190 consecutive matchday weeks in the bottom half of the table.
- £150m in debt
- £83m wage bill
- 3 Arsenal home games generate more money than an entire Sunderland season.

They also said the attendance figures are padded out by comping children.
To that point next years under 16's S/T will be £50.
(The Albion's under 18's will be £135-£335)

chimneys · May 2, 2017

He has a point. If Fulham come up, and Palace don't go down, we have 7 London aways next season plus Southampton and Bournemouth. That's 10 of the 20 clubs in South East (ish).

The Fish · May 2, 2017

Stat Brother said:
Not really worthy of a specific thread, but this weeks Football Weekly contained some mindblowing facts about Sunderland:-

- 190 consecutive matchday weeks in the bottom half of the table.
- £150m in debt
- £83m wage bill
- 3 Arsenal home games generate more money than an entire Sunderland season.

They also said the attendance figures are padded out by comping children.
To that point next years under 16's S/T will be £50.
(The Albion's under 18's will be £135-£335)

Last season 15/16 they spent the entirety of their season in the bottom 4, but somehow survived.

They're in more trouble than a lot of their fans are prepared to accept. Zero saleable assets, zero money in reserve, zero interest in commitment from their owner. A squad of has-beens and never-will-bes.

They might get c£20m for pickford and c£12m for Kone, but £33m won't stretch very far when they're set to lose their best players (Defoe, Kone, Pickford), they've 10 players out of contract in the summer and those that remain aren't exactly what you'd call top quality.

Honestly, if they don't bounce straight back, they may go the way of Forest and Leeds, maybe even Portsmouth.

Triggaaar · May 2, 2017

redoubtable seagull said:
Neville has pursued this line of thinking before. He sees a shift in power towards the London clubs coupled with Bournemouth and Southampton. More money in the south, the draw of London, better connections, airports etc make the south attractive to international players. His argument has some merit I think

Does it? Southampton are not exactly a new PL club, neither are the London clubs. Plenty of money also arrived at Man City. Bournemouth is new, but that's just one club that performed above expectation.

Airports? Pretty sure there are airports up north too, and international players seem happy going there.

Stat Brother · May 2, 2017

The Fish said:
Last season 15/16 they spent the entirety of their season in the bottom 4, but somehow survived.

They're in more trouble than a lot of their fans are prepared to accept. Zero saleable assets, zero money in reserve, zero interest in commitment from their owner. A squad of has-beens and never-will-bes.

They might get c£20m for pickford and c£12m for Kone, but £33m won't stretch very far when they're set to lose their best players (Defoe, Kone, Pickford), they've 10 players out of contract in the summer and those that remain aren't exactly what you'd call top quality.

Honestly, if they don't bounce straight back, they may go the way of Forest and Leeds, maybe even Portsmouth.

Pretty much the same assessment from the Sunderland supporting FW chap.
He said the under 16's S/T will be cheaper next season than his was in 1994.

That chart has done nothing to allay my fear that being promoted to a division without Sunderland is the worst time to get promoted.

Notters · May 2, 2017

chimneys said:
He has a point. If Fulham come up, and Palace don't go down, we have 7 London aways next season plus Southampton and Bournemouth. That's 10 of the 20 clubs in South East (ish).

It's the Midlands that's really lacking these days though, West Brom, Leicester and er...., er... Stoke (just).

Blackadder · May 2, 2017

A Sunderland fan was on Talk Sport yesterday. They are in a mess. They are paying 8% on a huge loan which costs the club £6Million a year in INTEREST. They don't pay back any capital.

It was pointed out that is the equivalent to 2 x £60,000 per week players.

I can see them being more like Blackburn than Newcastle next season.

Bold Seagull · May 2, 2017

El Presidente said:
Last season the promoted teams were 'Boro, Hull and Burnley. Neville is talking out of his arse again and his sycophants in the media make him out to be a footballing sage.

If we go up with Newcastle and one of Huddersfield, Leeds or the Massive it's not a southern takeover.

For arguments sake, Swansea survive, and we take the North South divide as starting at Grimsby diagonally down to Gloucester (Prof. Bailey) but includes Swansea as 'South' next season:

Brighton, Bournemouth, Southampton, Arsenal, Spurs, Watford, West Ham, Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Leicester, Swansea. 11.

Go back 5 years:
Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Fulham, Swansea, Norwich, QPR. 7.

Go back 10 years:
Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Reading, Portsmouth, West Ham, Fulham, Charlton, Watford. 9.

Go back 15 years:
Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham, Spurs, Southampton, Fulham, Charlton, Ipswich, Leicester. 9.

Go back 20 years:
Arsenal, Chelsea, Wimbledon, Leicester, Spurs, West Ham, Southampton. 7.

Has Neville spotted a subtle trend?

El Presidente · May 2, 2017

Bold Seagull said:
Has Neville spotted a subtle trend?

Perhaps he could set up a course on the subject at the soon to be opened Gary Neville University?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/fancy-degree-gary-neville-university-12594739

Stat Brother · May 2, 2017

Bold Seagull said:
For arguments sake, Swansea survive, and we take the North South divide as starting at Grimsby diagonally down to Gloucester (Prof. Bailey) but includes Swansea as 'South' next season:

Brighton, Bournemouth, Southampton, Arsenal, Spurs, Watford, West Ham, Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Leicester, Swansea. 11.

Go back 5 years:
Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Fulham, Swansea, Norwich, QPR. 7.

Go back 10 years:
Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Reading, Portsmouth, West Ham, Fulham, Charlton, Watford. 9.

Go back 15 years:
Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham, Spurs, Southampton, Fulham, Charlton, Ipswich, Leicester. 9.

Go back 20 years:
Arsenal, Chelsea, Wimbledon, Leicester, Spurs, West Ham, Southampton. 7.

Has Neville spotted a subtle trend?

Whereas with Hull and if Millwall miss out in the play-offs, next season's Championship is going to be The Northern Premier + Bristol City.

The Fish · May 2, 2017

Stat Brother said:
Pretty much the same assessment from the Sunderland supporting FW chap.
He said the under 16's S/T will be cheaper next season than his was in 1994.

That chart has done nothing to allay my fear that being promoted to a division without Sunderland is the worst time to get promoted.

True enough, and I don't mean to sound arrogant, but you're also going up with a team who can spend a silly amount to strengthen further. Moreso than a team like Burnley, Shef Wed, etc. And while spending a lot is no guarantee of a high finish, it certainly stacks our deck a bit.

Whoever is the 3rd side to get promoted will 100% be the favourite to go straight back down (unless Boro miraculously survive) but we'd need to finish above them + two others.

Although, this is the best time tog et promoted, because the Championship next season is going to be brutal.

Villa and Norwich will be much, much better next year........................................2
The three relegated sides will aim for an immediate return..................................5
The 3 Play-Off sides who miss out.......................................................................8
Leeds.....................................................................................................................9
plus there's often 1 or 2 teams from midtable who have a run at the top spots..10-11

hans kraay fan club · May 2, 2017

The Fish said:
True enough, and I don't mean to sound arrogant, but you're also going up with a team who can spend a silly amount to strengthen further. Moreso than a team like Burnley, Shef Wed, etc. And while spending a lot is no guarantee of a high finish, it certainly stacks our deck a bit.

Whoever is the 3rd side to get promoted will 100% be the favourite to go straight back down (unless Boro miraculously survive) but we'd need to finish above them + two others.

Sheffield Wednesday have every bit as much spending power as you, and an owner who actually might do so.

hans kraay fan club · May 2, 2017

Blackadder said:
A Sunderland fan was on Talk Sport yesterday. They are in a mess. They are paying 8% on a huge loan which costs the club £6Million a year in INTEREST. They don't pay back any capital.

This is INSANE.

Whatever the situation may have been that the loan was required in the first place, to NOT pay any of the capital back whilst in the £150m club, defies belief. If they can't pay any back whilst in the Prem, when exactly would they be able to?

Blackadder · May 2, 2017

hans kraay fan club said:
This is INSANE.

Whatever the situation may have been that the loan was required in the first place, to NOT pay any of the capital back whilst in the £150m club, defies belief. If they can't pay any back whilst in the Prem, when exactly would they be able to?

Exactly. They are well and truly screwed.

Stat Brother · May 2, 2017

hans kraay fan club said:
This is INSANE.

Whatever the situation may have been that the loan was required in the first place, to NOT pay any of the capital back whilst in the £150m club, defies belief. If they can't pay any back whilst in the Prem, when exactly would they be able to?

The FW chat (about 14mins in) tells of the 'usual' story.
In their case bloke talks of handing the cheque book to Roy Keane and not reigning him in.

Subsequent owners then trying to lower the wage bill.
Get into relegation difficulty.
Sack the manager - pay him off.
Employ new man.
Give him 6 new players, but pay over the odds because of the relegation battle.
Start the next season badly, &,
then begin the process again.

Begging the obvious question:-

Was it worth it?

Tom Hark Preston Park · May 2, 2017

Defoe's goals have been keeping Sunderland in the Premier League ever since Poyet signed him in the January 2015 transfer window. Without Defoe they'd arguably be playing in League One. They're going to have to come up with one hell of an inspired replacement.

Stat Brother · May 2, 2017

Tom Hark said:
Defoe's goals have been keeping Sunderland in the Premier League ever since Poyet signed him in the January 2015 transfer window. Without Defoe they'd arguably be playing in League One.

Maybe without Defoe and clinging onto the Premier League, they wouldn't be £150m in debt with an £83m wage bill.

smudge · May 2, 2017

Football should only be played south of Watford Gap. They have Rugby League up North.

Simster · May 2, 2017

The Fish said:
True enough, and I don't mean to sound arrogant, but you're also going up with a team who can spend a silly amount to strengthen further. Moreso than a team like Burnley, Shef Wed, etc. And while spending a lot is no guarantee of a high finish, it certainly stacks our deck a bit.

You also have a track record of crass incompetence and not learning from your mistakes.

I fear Burnley and West Brom and even pluckly Bournemouth miles more than I fear Newcastle. I look forward to seeing Rafa decide he's had enough in 2 months or so, then Ashley replace him with another of football's serial losers. In fact knowing Newcastle and Ashley, David Moyes is probably already drawing up a Newcastle player wish-list.

The Fish · May 2, 2017

hans kraay fan club said:
Sheffield Wednesday have every bit as much spending power as you, and an owner who actually might do so.

Really? That's a surprise to me, I knew they had some cash, but the rumours on Tyneside are we'll be spending the £30m we banked last summer, another £30m or so from more player sales and a financial commitment from Ashley of another £15-£20m, for a total of £75m-£80m. Although some are being more optimistic than even that and predicting closer to £100m on recruitment. I'd be staggered if Shef Wed match that.

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