Food banks

mikeyjh · Dec 16, 2014

Hastings gull said:
I am afraid that including such a link as "proof" is not going to have much of an impression. All to often posts include links which invariably give their particular slant, suggesting that this is the facts we all need. Applies to all shades, by the way! Was there not a Guardian journalist who appeared in a Labour Party Political Broadcast, giving the impression of being poor?

I agree, it's not proof in any way, but it's food for thought. The point being that many have looked at a £££ number and thought it looks fine but they've found that the reality of living on that income FOR ONE WEEK was an extreme hardship.

BigGully · Dec 16, 2014

mikeyjh said:
I (honestly) don't have the time to go and put together the expense side of this particular P&L, but I suspect we may be surprised about how little that covers. Meanwhile, take a read of this:-

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/shortcuts/2013/apr/02/iain-duncan-smith-mp-living-on-benefits

No this what you are entitled to if you are a non working single parent living in Brighton, it seems fair and if reasonably managed there seems little reason to go to a food bank, however if this parent does as I suspect qualify to access one then they might choose too, which would be helpful as it would offset some of her food expenditure, many food banks will deliver as I did, so perhaps not a reason to have to go and seek one with perhaps a fear of stigma.

mikeyjh · Dec 16, 2014

Hastings gull said:
I am sure that the vast majority of folk would welcome help for those genuinely in need, but would need to be persuaded that they are really unable to help themselves. I do not fully understand your point here about drug users facing their problems - of course they should do so, but if they can use a food bank, and thus avoid paying for food, where in reality do you think the rest of the money would go on? I don't see that this would help them to face their problems.
Thanks, I do appreciate that you cannot go simply for a weekly shop -might go myself if that were the case!

Users of food banks, and I'm sure you know this, need to be referred to the food bank by a care professional, such as a doctor or social worker. The food bank will also then refer them on to an appropriate agency to help with their more chronic issues. That's what I was trying to describe as having them 'in the system', can't be a bad thing right?

BigGully · Dec 16, 2014

mikeyjh said:
Users of food banks, and I'm sure you know this, need to be referred to the food bank by a care professional, such as a doctor or social worker. The food bank will also then refer them on to an appropriate agency to help with their more chronic issues. That's what I was trying to describe as having them 'in the system', can't be a bad thing right?

That isnt as I understand it, anyone could start a food bank and then compose their own qualifying criteria, I suspect no food bank would not help/give food to a hungry person irrespective of their financial status.

Care professional and other agencies can refer anyone they feel might benefit from them, but with the increase of foodbanks there might be times when those that fulfill the qualifying criteria might access one, not necessarily due to critical need.

It offers a flawed analysis of why they exist.

Herr Tubthumper · Dec 16, 2014

BigGully said:
Ok lets put some meat on the bones .....

I will start with a non working single Mum of two young children ( 1-4yrs ) living in Brighton.

Her entitlements are as follows:

Tax Credits £116.38 per week
Jobseeker's Allowance £72.40 per week
Housing Benefit £190.57 per week
Child Benefit £34.05 per week
Total Entitlements £413.40 per week

She also has an entitlement to:

Local Welfare Fund ( for those on benefits with emergency needs )
Free School Meals ( Includes Healthy Start coupons for free vitamins and weekly voucher to buy milks and frozen vegetable or infant formula milk )
NHS Low Income Scheme ( Includes NHS prescriptions, Free NHS Dental Treatment, Free Sight Tests, Galsses and Contact Lenses )
Home Improvement Grants
Discretionary Housing Payment
Warm Homes Discount

It seems a fair and far reaching benefit system.

I am sure a few people abuse the system but in my opinion, and I have seen no significant evidence to change this opinion, the vast majority are going there due to genuine need. Some may be more needy than others but the vast majority have a need. And regardless of this, just the fact we have food banks suggests something is seriously ****ed. As David Cameron said a few months back "we are a wealthy country." It's the UK FFS, not ****ing Ethiopia.

aolstudios · Dec 16, 2014

Herr Tubthumper said:
I am sure a few people abuse the system but in my opinion, and I have seen no significant evidence to change this opinion, the vast majority are going there due to genuine need. Some may be more needy than others but the vast majority have a need. And regardless of this, just the fact we have food banks suggests something is seriously ****ed. As David Cameron said a few months back "we are a wealthy country." It's the UK FFS, not ****ing Ethiopia.

This, all of it.
That they're needed at all in this country is an absolute, avoidable disgrace that should shame us all

BigGully · Dec 16, 2014

Herr Tubthumper said:
I am sure a few people abuse the system but in my opinion, and I have seen no significant evidence to change this opinion, the vast majority are going there due to genuine need. Some may be more needy than others but the vast majority have a need. And regardless of this, just the fact we have food banks suggests something is seriously ****ed. As David Cameron said a few months back "we are a wealthy country." It's the UK FFS, not ****ing Ethiopia.

Its a pointless excersise shouting poverty or no poverty at each other ( am I the only one that has a Micky Flanagan voice in my head each time I type the word poverty ) as it is an irrefutable fact of the benefit that 'non working single parent of two children' receives here in Brighton is a housing allowance of £190.00 per week and disposable weekly income of £220+ per week ( JSA £72.40 + Tax Credits £116.38 + Child Benefit £34.05 ).

With other financial exemptions including NHS, Free School meals etc. it seems a quite a generous amount.

But I cannot see where the necessity for food banks due to poverty induced hunger exist when you have an entitlement of over £21,000 per year.

I am sure it isnt easy etc etc, but it ia a manageable and a supportive entitlement.

Hastings gull · Dec 16, 2014

mikeyjh said:
users of food banks, and i'm sure you know this, need to be referred to the food bank by a care professional, such as a doctor or social worker. The food bank will also then refer them on to an appropriate agency to help with their more chronic issues. That's what i was trying to describe as having them 'in the system', can't be a bad thing right?

many thanks.

spence · Dec 16, 2014

mikeyjh said:
Users of food banks, and I'm sure you know this, need to be referred to the food bank by a care professional, such as a doctor or social worker. The food bank will also then refer them on to an appropriate agency to help with their more chronic issues. That's what I was trying to describe as having them 'in the system', can't be a bad thing right?

You are spot on and ignore the garbage he is spouting. Generally speaking you have to be referred like you say

http://mkfoodbank.org.uk/i-need-help/

BigGully · Dec 16, 2014

spence said:
You are spot on and ignore the garbage he is spouting. Generally speaking you have to be referred like you say

http://mkfoodbank.org.uk/i-need-help/

Our local school was actually approached by a church that had a food bank and asked if we might have someone who could benefit from this food, the office secretary looked down the lists and offered those that were on free school meals, they were then discreetly contacted if they might like to receive some items from it.

Your problem is that you want so much for it to be a consequence of poverty that you will just wee your pants hoping beyond hope it fits your agenda.

But if you think about it why would you not allow access to anyone who might have hunger irrespective of how they got to their predicament and without prejudice of their financial status, but again it just doesnt fit with you.

Herr Tubthumper · Dec 16, 2014

BigGully said:
But I cannot see where the necessity for food banks due to poverty induced hunger exist when you have an entitlement of over £21,000 per year.

So why do approx 1 million people use them? Why do organisations create them? Why do people support them? Why does the government and numerous coroporations and chatities recognise/support them? Are they all being hoodwinked?

If you cannot see a necessity then you must have an response to these questions? Or have you simply not considered these points?

If you want to change my opinion then you can start by giving me some answers.

Creaky · Dec 16, 2014

Herr Tubthumper said:
I am sure a few people abuse the system but in my opinion, and I have seen no significant evidence to change this opinion, the vast majority are going there due to genuine need. Some may be more needy than others but the vast majority have a need. And regardless of this, just the fact we have food banks suggests something is seriously ****ed. As David Cameron said a few months back "we are a wealthy country." It's the UK FFS, not ****ing Ethiopia.

A much bigger disgrace is the amount of food that is wasted in the UK each year - the latest estimate is that this is in the region of 15 million tons a year! - only, (if only is the right word

), half of this is waste from our homes, the remainder is thrown away by retailers, producers, transporters and growers.

Some of the waste is just plain crazy - have you ever bought a sandwich in a supermarket or garage and wondered what happens to the crusts? - most sandwich makers actually bin the crusts as well as the first slice of the loaf from each end. Big retailers throw away millions of pounds worth of food that has passed its best before date but which is still perfectly edible - tons of food caught in the supply chain go to landfill because it would cost more to unpackage and feed to animals - farmers plough back crops which don't match the specification required by the big retailers regarding shape and external blemishes. Then once the food does get to the consumer we throw much of it away,

We shouldn't be discouraging food banks and 'social supermarkets' and consider them as a mark of failure but rather encouraging their expansion!

mikeyjh · Dec 16, 2014

Herr Tubthumper said:
So why do approx 1 million people use them? Why do organisations create them? Why do people support them? Why does the government and numerous coroporations and chatities recognise/support them? Are they all being hoodwinked?

If you cannot see a necessity then you must have an response to these questions? Or have you simply not considered these points?

If you want to change my opinion then you can start by giving me some answers.

Should be pointed out that the 1m is those using Trussel trust banks for year to Mar-14, shudder to think the number is now for all of the other banks.

GOM · Dec 16, 2014

How did everyone manage before the profusion of food banks appeared ?

BigGully · Dec 16, 2014

Herr Tubthumper said:
So why do approx 1 million people use them? Why do organisations create them? Why do people support them? Why does the government and numerous coroporations and chatities recognise/support them? Are they all being hoodwinked?

If you cannot see a necessity then you must have an response to these questions? Or have you simply not considered these points?

If you want to change my opinion then you can start by giving me some answers.

I have clearly stated my view and personal experience, I have offered an example of what entitlement to benefits there are for those that most would concede to be the poorest in our society, it seems quite a generous entitlement, sustainable enough for those in receipt of it not needing access to a food bank, but some still do, why wouldn't they ?

Ultimately giving food to someone who is suffering from real hunger irrespective of how they got to their position is a good thing and more power to them, but to then conclude it is somehow down to state driven poverty doesnt seem to be backed up by the entitlements given.

There are many vulnerable people and the more support they can access the better, but just by being in receipt of benefits doesnt mean you are condemned to be queuing at the local food bank, unless you want to of course.

aolstudios · Dec 16, 2014

GOM said:
How did everyone manage before the profusion of food banks appeared ?

There were less people in need before austerity. The need has been created by government policy

Herr Tubthumper · Dec 16, 2014

BigGully said:
I have clearly stated my view and personal experience, I have offered an example of what entitlement to benefits there are for those that most would concede to be the poorest in our society, it seems quite a generous entitlement, sustainable enough for those in receipt of it not needing access to a food bank, but some still do, why wouldn't they ?

Ultimately giving food to someone who is suffering from real hunger irrespective of how they got to their position is a good thing and more power to them, but to then conclude it is somehow down to state driven poverty doesnt seem to be backed up by the entitlements given.

There are many vulnerable people and the more support they can access the better, but just by being in receipt of benefits doesnt mean you are condemned to be queuing at the local food bank, unless you want to of course.

This is not really an adequate answer to my questions is it? If you want to win my mind then you will have to try a bit harder.

GOM · Dec 16, 2014

aolstudios said:
There were less people in need before austerity. The need has been created by government policy

Ah, I see perfectly now that you have explained it. Because there were less in need they managed without the food banks.

aolstudios · Dec 16, 2014

GOM said:
Ah, I see perfectly now that you have explained it.

It really is that simple

GOM · Dec 16, 2014

aolstudios said:
It really is that simple

Simple, because there were less in need they managed without the food banks. Thanks

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