Southern Rail STRIKE details

pasty said:

He said, (and it is also stated in the Southern statement made some months back) that "every train that currently has a guard, will have an OBS" Of course, that was difficult to hear because loud mouth Cash kept interrupting every single time Horton tried to speak.

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the thing about the Southern statment from months ago is that it was part of the proposed agreement with RMT. RMT rejected it, walked out and Southern imposed new contracts. so the agreement and anything Southern said regarding it is pretty much void (members must be pissed they've missed the £2k bonus). they have licence to choose when a OBS is present to suit, according to staff availablity and any other agenda.

So, I have an interview tomorrow at noon in Victoria but have to drop children at school in Hangleton at 8:40. Chances of managing to make it up for the interview? Normally I can do the drop off and get there for 10:30 but wondering if this is unfeasible for tomorrow.

I see Germany are going to introduce driverless trains in 2020 ( Who will close the doors then )

amexer said:

I see Germany are going to introduce driverless trains in 2020 ( Who will close the doors then )

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Who knows but we pay for it.

The Clamp said:

Thank you for your feedback however, I'm afraid I'm not trained to respond to that.

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Then how's your self defence training? If you actually use trains you might require some when the government eventually get their way and have a fully automated transport system.

Off Topic but travel related .. Does anyone know if they have managed to receive their 1 months compensation from Southern as promised by the Govt or how to go about claiming it ?

Frustrating at Falmer at 2 today

Train to Lewes and later train to Ore both delayed, gets to 2.05 and says train to Ore will be there at 2.14 on screen, announcement goes out to say Ore train is delayed and next train into station is the earlier Lewes train, train comes in and is the Ore train, luckily I noticed but as pulling out saw number of people who normally get train at same time on platform where they had followed the announcements being made

Another RMT strike on January 23 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38600739

Just when you think you've seen it all. A Labour councillor wants the army to break the strike by bringing in the Army, as it only takes 15 weeks to train a driver!!! Astounding.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1501...ring_in_the_Army_to_drive_trains/?ref=mr&lp=9

You might get a Thameslink if you're lucky. Have you checked to see if you could get a National Express bus?

ditchy said:

Off Topic but travel related .. Does anyone know if they have managed to receive their 1 months compensation from Southern as promised by the Govt or how to go about claiming it ?

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Not yet... statement on website says they will contact those affected around mid Jan so will hopefully hear sometime next week...

Copied from abc commuters Facebook page



I met my MP, Chris Philp at the Conservative Association office in Purley yesterday to discuss Southern:

Chris was polite and welcoming but straight down to business and extremely hurried. He spoke intensively right from the off and I could barely get a word in.

His first key message was "I get it" and he outlined the disruption and its effects on commuters and their families at length. He was at pains to stress that Southern was far and away the biggest thing he was currently working on, to the exclusion of almost anything else and, frankly, I don't doubt that.

He went on to say that the situation was "atrocious" and "unacceptable" and acknowledged that the problems with Southern were long-standing (two years) and multi-faceted. He said that he saw five causes and outlined these in brief with what he had done about / was happening with each:

1. The ongoing work at London Bridge. Currently only two tracks instead of four but this should be resolved later in the year.
2. Underinvestment in physical infrastructure which was now being addressed as he and other MPs had secured investment.
3. Pinch points on the network that need to be widened. In particular the stretch from South Croydon to Windmill Junction. This will needed widening at a cost of £1bn which he and other MPs are hoping to secure from government.
4. Various serious problems with GTR. Firstly they are incompetent managers of the franchise. The second was that the franchise is badly set-up, putting none of the current financial penalties at GTR's door. Thirdly it is too big a franchise and needs to be broken up. He has called for the government to strip GTR of the franchise but they don't share that view.
5. The unions. He was damning about them and described them as Trotskyists who were intent on bringing the government down. He said they had turned down some generous offers already made. He also pointed out that DOO is now in place (and would therefore limit the impact of the new RMT strike. He is introducing a private members bill proposing restrictions on the right to strike. Additionally there will be a public letter signed by him and other MPs in the Telegraph this Sunday calling for legislation. He loosely framed it as a dispute over who opens the doors (something he said had now already been decided and implemented)

(I'd been there over ten minutes by this stage and hadn't had a chance to speak.)

I welcomed the work he'd done but pointed out that points 1-3 could all loosely be grouped as "things that need sorting anyway" and weren't really immediately relevant to the current crisis. I stressed that it was clear to me and everyone else that GTR (government) and the Unions had now adopted intransigent positions and that some other catalyst was required to resolve the problem which just didn't seem to be coming. I pointed out that legislation would only limit strikes and not stop them and would do nothing to address the root causes of the current crisis, overtime ban etc. I stressed that I don't see the unions as blameless but that countless other train companies seemed to be able to run their businesses without relationships with their workers breaking down in this way.

We went back and forth on a couple of those points and I also raised the issue of short formations which he took on board and a concerning situation about a disabled woman than my wife had seen at Sanderstead who couldn't disembark due to lack of on-board staff. However I didn't really feel like I'd got past the spin he was giving me on all the points and he was basically saying "we're doing / have done as much as we can".

At this point I just basically said, look, we both know that the unions and GTR are not budging. We also both know that if you had to fight a general election in May this year we would not be having this conversation and the issue would be resolved by now. So clearly something can be done. What is the government's plan to resolve this? This question seemed to land well with him and he briefly seemed to humanise a bit and drop the spin.

He took a breath and said much more slowly (I'm paraphrasing): "Look. The Government don't tell me everything, I'm just a backbench MP. But the situation is that there have been some very generous offers made and rejected by the unions. ASLEF are doing this as a favour to the RMT and they don't really have any skin in the game any more. By the end of January they will have had six days on strike this month and no overtime so their pay packet is going to be pretty slim. I suspect the expectation is that they will, at that point, have had enough and come back to negotiations, the offers made already by GTR will go back on the table and be accepted. That's the optimistic scenario."

While I knew that was probably the case, it was certainly a surprise to hear him say it. I left it a moment and then said "That's the plan? Basically starve them out of it?" I was clearly incredulous. He then looked quite worried and said "That's not government policy. It's just what I'm inferring the plan is". (Clearly it is govt policy) I said: "And if that doesn't work?". He replied "Well the pessimistic scenario is that it continues in to February." We were out of tune at this point but I stressed that if that was the case he could expect to see me again next month.

So basically the government is going to try to wait them out. There were a few other things said which I'll add below as they come back to me but I'm in a busy couple of days and was keen to get this posted.

albionite said:

He took a breath and said much more slowly (I'm paraphrasing): "Look. The Government don't tell me everything, I'm just a backbench MP. But the situation is that there have been some very generous offers made and rejected by the unions. ASLEF are doing this as a favour to the RMT and they don't really have any skin in the game any more. By the end of January they will have had six days on strike this month and no overtime so their pay packet is going to be pretty slim. I suspect the expectation is that they will, at that point, have had enough and come back to negotiations, the offers made already by GTR will go back on the table and be accepted. That's the optimistic scenario."

While I knew that was probably the case, it was certainly a surprise to hear him say it. I left it a moment and then said "That's the plan? Basically starve them out of it?" I was clearly incredulous. He then looked quite worried and said "That's not government policy. It's just what I'm inferring the plan is". (Clearly it is govt policy) I said: "And if that doesn't work?". He replied "Well the pessimistic scenario is that it continues in to February." We were out of tune at this point but I stressed that if that was the case he could expect to see me again next month.

So basically the government is going to try to wait them out. There were a few other things said which I'll add below as they come back to me but I'm in a busy couple of days and was keen to get this posted.

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That is actually quite disgraceful behavior by the government if true.

From what I gather, for the majority of the drivers it isn't about the money, and money they are losing because of the strike action. It is about the safety side due to the inappropriate equipment on Southerns 377 class' (and non existent on 313's), and the way legislation washes any blame for incidents away from the TOC's and solely on to the driver.

Don't expect this to end any time soon if that is their stance.

The Governments agenda is now becoming clear, 50 Tory MPs have had a letter published in the Sunday Telegraph today calling for the Government to bring in tougher strike laws.
Strike action to 'critical public infrastructure' such as train and bus services,would be banned,unless a High Court Judge deemed them 'proportionate'

lawros left foot said:

The Governments agenda is now becoming clear, 50 Tory MPs have had a letter published in the Sunday Telegraph today calling for the Government to bring in tougher strike laws.
Strike action to 'critical public infrastructure' such as train and bus services,would be banned,unless a High Court Judge deemed them 'proportionate'

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Its going to take something like that so others who dont understand the dispute can see how utterly shit the service is.

Bear in mind its shocking at the moment and the drivers dont have to work overtime...which is also affecting things massively. Whilst the union are telling them not to so its classed as industrial action they can still choose not too.

Then there are absolutely no excuses for the utterly shit service that Southern/Govia provide. The strikes ARE providing the ideal smokscreen. Sad but true.

lawros left foot said:

The Governments agenda is now becoming clear, 50 Tory MPs have had a letter published in the Sunday Telegraph today calling for the Government to bring in tougher strike laws.
Strike action to 'critical public infrastructure' such as train and bus services,would be banned,unless a High Court Judge deemed them 'proportionate'

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Good. The sooner the better.

Yoda said:

From what I gather, for the majority of the drivers it isn't about the money, and money they are losing because of the strike action. It is about the safety side due to the inappropriate equipment on Southerns 377 class' (and non existent on 313's), and the way legislation washes any blame for incidents away from the TOC's and solely on to the driver.

Don't expect this to end any time soon if that is their stance.

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If it's not about money then why don't they just walk out and refuse to work period? If it is genuinely about safety then why are they putting their own lives at risk by going to work in the first place?

lawros left foot said:

The Governments agenda is now becoming clear, 50 Tory MPs have had a letter published in the Sunday Telegraph today calling for the Government to bring in tougher strike laws.
Strike action to 'critical public infrastructure' such as train and bus services,would be banned,unless a High Court Judge deemed them 'proportionate'

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Shouldn't have sold them off to foreign buyers then if they're that essential , why should private businesses have any state support ?

Yoda said:

From what I gather, for the majority of the drivers it isn't about the money, and money they are losing because of the strike action. It is about the safety side due to the inappropriate equipment on Southerns 377 class' (and non existent on 313's), and the way legislation washes any blame for incidents away from the TOC's and solely on to the driver.

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neither equipment or liability changed on the Southern Metro services, running 377 with DOO for years (and 455 class that rely on a mirror to check!). this fact devalues the claim about safety, though i dont think its about the money either but about union power.

Ernest said:

Shouldn't have sold them off to foreign buyers then if they're that essential , why should private businesses have any state support ?

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Nail/head

Ernest said:

Shouldn't have sold them off to foreign buyers then if they're that essential , why should private businesses have any state support ?

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Bang on the money.