Uber to lose license in London today ?

Bozza · Sep 22, 2017

Simster said:
Presumably because the black cabs have had far more stringent background checks run on them. I think anyone can download the Uber app and become a driver, but even if that isn't true, my perception is that it is probably a lot easier to get round these checks.

You can't, and never could "just download the Uber app and become a driver".

Here is the process for London, which does seem pretty thorough to me. Crucially, it does also involve some TfL licensing accreditation, so I'm not sure why the 'blame' falls back on Uber.

Step 1 - Visit ignition centre
Visit our Ignition centre anytime during the opening hours. You'll get FREE personalised help with every step of your TfL private hire licence application.

Step 2 - Complete Enhanced DBS
We can help you send off for an Enhanced DBS check as part of your application process. Drop in with your passport, driver’s licence and a bank statement (from within 3 months).

Step 3 - Get Medical Check
Call your GP to ask if they can complete the Private Hire Medical Form, check the next availability, cost and inclusion of the eye test.

Step 4 - Submit Private Hire Application
Receive in-person support at our Ignition centre to submit your private hire application to TfL. Drop in with the required documents (Medical, Enhanced DBS, passport, driving licence, NI number and debit/credit card with £250).

Step 5 - Prepare for Topographical Assessment
Once you’ve submitted your PCO application, you will be invited to sit for a topographical test with TfL. Uber offers free preparation sessions so make sure you come along!

Step 6 - Start driving with Uber
Once you’ve received your private hire licence, take a look at some vehicle rental options offered by third parties. Make an appointment at our Greenlight Hub to onboard as a new driver partner and get on the road!

Source >>> https://www.uber.com/en-GB/drive/london/get-a-license/london-ignition/

Seagull1989 · Sep 22, 2017

I was always against Uber as I felt they were under cutting the taxi drivers. That was until I had to get a cab from Heathrow to a hotel in the area less than 1 mile away . I went to the taxi rank abd the first 2 cab drivers said "no dont fancy that mate " and the taxi driver who ended up taking me wanted £50 . I had no choice but to pay it and since that time I've used Uber ever since, not only because they're cheaper but they will take you where you want to go not like arrogant cabbies who will only take you if it suits them

Simster · Sep 22, 2017

Interesting [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION], so questions will need to be answered over what exactly is "unfit and proper" about their service.

swindonseagull · Sep 22, 2017

nicko31 said:
I remember getting scammed at Manila AP, a guy produced a price list in gold writing, USD60 to the city, set price friend

See my earlier post.......IF it was your first time in Manila .....you should have asked for advice on NSC.....( the oracle of World cites ) I lived in Manila for 3 years so feel the pain of any foreigner turning up at the airport without adcice.

swindonseagull · Sep 22, 2017

Seagull1989 said:
I was always against Uber as I felt they were under cutting the taxi drivers. That was until I had to get a cab from Heathrow to a hotel in the area less than 1 mile away . I went to the taxi rank abd the first 2 cab drivers said "no dont fancy that mate " and the taxi driver who ended up taking me wanted £50 . I had no choice but to pay it and since that time I've used Uber ever since, not only because they're cheaper but they will take you where you want to go not like arrogant cabbies who will only take you if it suits them

Bollocks to them, if it was 1 mile I would have walked ( or got a shuttle bus)

The Spanish · Sep 22, 2017

hans kraay fan club said:
I'm not disputing the assault claims / stats, but I genuinely don't understand them.

If a teenage girl on her own needs to get home at 3am, from a club, she has two options:

The black cab model involves her waving down a cab, with an unknown driver (in theory, but not always the person the cab is licensed to), with no record of her doing so. Nobody knows whose cab she got into, nor where she was going.

The Uber model means she gets the name and image of the driver sent to her, so she can verify. The booked journey is documented and traceable, and crucially, the driver (if he should be some deviant sexual predator) KNOWS that he is fully traceable and identifiable.

How can the former be the SAFER model?

because there have been virtually no recorded incidents of black cab drivers committing these sorts of crimes. traceability hasnt exactly stopped any issues we have seen so far with the latter, just made them easier to nick after the event. i would stick to the more analogue former that simply gives you peace of mind nothings going to happen in the first place

The Spanish · Sep 22, 2017

Common as Mook said:
You saved me from typing this.

its utterly back to front. so what if you can trace someone who has committed a crime. if the other option is someone who is almost certain not to commit that crime, surely thats the better option?

beorhthelm · Sep 22, 2017

never quite understand the opposition to Uber when they operate the same as private hire firms. considering the radio rent and other conditions those firms impose on their drivers, Uber is a better deal for drivers, and its more flexible for punters. why does the discussion always revolve around Uber vs Cabbies and ignore this other group?

Titanic · Sep 22, 2017

The Spanish said:
because there have been virtually no recorded incidents of black cab drivers committing these sorts of crimes. traceability hasnt exactly stopped any issues we have seen so far with the latter, just made them easier to nick after the event. i would stick to the more analogue former that simply gives you peace of mind nothings going to happen in the first place

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...s-charged-with-crimes-last-year-a3226396.html

...data released by the Metropolitan Police under Freedom of Information (FOI) laws, also showed that between 2011 and 2015, a total of 1,948 drivers were charged with criminal offences.

Of these, 521 were charged with violent or sexual offences, which can include grievous bodily harm or rape.

The FOI showed the number of people charged who gave their occupation as a taxi driver or minicab driver.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 22, 2017

brightn'ove said:
That's ****ing shit.

Sometimes uber is the only option late at night and when trying to get transport early in the morning before any trains.

Black cabs are one of the biggest causes of pollution in the city and the drivers are absolute cheating lying scumbag road-hogging c***ts.

Genuinely gutted.

The same black cabs that take veterans to Horse Guards, free of charge on Remembrance Sunday, and pick them up on Westminster Bridge, afterwards to take them to the stations? I've used a Poppy taxi myself.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...and-from-central-london-service-a3108966.html

The same black cabs who take disabled children out for a trip?
http://www.thelondontaxidriverschildrenscharity.co.uk/

nicko31 · Sep 22, 2017

swindonseagull said:
See my earlier post.......IF it was your first time in Manila .....you should have asked for advice on NSC.....( the oracle of World cites ) I lived in Manila for 3 years so feel the pain of any foreigner turning up at the airport without adcice.

I don't think there was NSC back then, just Lonely Planet. Bit of a wild place compared to other Asian cities. Underrated country

Gwylan · Sep 22, 2017

Bozza said:
You can't, and never could "just download the Uber app and become a driver".

Here is the process for London, which does seem pretty thorough to me. Crucially, it does also involve some TfL licensing accreditation, so I'm not sure why the 'blame' falls back on Uber.

Step 1 - Visit ignition centre
Visit our Ignition centre anytime during the opening hours. You'll get FREE personalised help with every step of your TfL private hire licence application.

Step 2 - Complete Enhanced DBS
We can help you send off for an Enhanced DBS check as part of your application process. Drop in with your passport, driver’s licence and a bank statement (from within 3 months).

Step 3 - Get Medical Check
Call your GP to ask if they can complete the Private Hire Medical Form, check the next availability, cost and inclusion of the eye test.

Step 4 - Submit Private Hire Application
Receive in-person support at our Ignition centre to submit your private hire application to TfL. Drop in with the required documents (Medical, Enhanced DBS, passport, driving licence, NI number and debit/credit card with £250).

Step 5 - Prepare for Topographical Assessment
Once you’ve submitted your PCO application, you will be invited to sit for a topographical test with TfL. Uber offers free preparation sessions so make sure you come along!

Step 6 - Start driving with Uber
Once you’ve received your private hire licence, take a look at some vehicle rental options offered by third parties. Make an appointment at our Greenlight Hub to onboard as a new driver partner and get on the road!

Source >>> https://www.uber.com/en-GB/drive/london/get-a-license/london-ignition/

Looking at the TFL decision, this is the relevant paragraph,

TfL considers that Uber's approach and conduct demonstrate a lack of corporate responsibility in relation to a number of issues which have potential public safety and security implications. These include:

Its approach to reporting serious criminal offences.
Its approach to how medical certificates are obtained.
Its approach to how Enhanced Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) checks are obtained.
Its approach to explaining the use of Greyball in London - software that could be used to block regulatory bodies from gaining full access to the app and prevent officials from undertaking regulatory or law enforcement duties.

It doesn't do into any more detail but it looks like Uber has been taking some shortcuts here. Getting a DBS, for example, takes several months; I wonder if Uber has been using drivers before DBS is obtained. And the use of Greyball looks particularly worrying.

The Spanish · Sep 22, 2017

Titanic said:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...s-charged-with-crimes-last-year-a3226396.html

...data released by the Metropolitan Police under Freedom of Information (FOI) laws, also showed that between 2011 and 2015, a total of 1,948 drivers were charged with criminal offences.

Of these, 521 were charged with violent or sexual offences, which can include grievous bodily harm or rape.

The FOI showed the number of people charged who gave their occupation as a taxi driver or minicab driver.

what are the numbers for green badge holders?

Springal · Sep 22, 2017

I'm proper mixed on Uber really.

In my opinion in the US they are a lot better in terms of service and knowledge. In the UK and this might be slightly controversial it seems you have a lot of immigrants working and their driving and any concept of knowledge or not relying on their sat nav is not there. I've had countless incidents where a driver has got lost, taken a very long route or 'can't find me'. I actually worked in the same office as Uber in London in Aldgate and when they had a driver intake it looked like signing on day.

However it is cheaper, and this comes into play more in Brighton where hackney carriages won't use a meter to Worthing and will charge £40-£60 flat rate. Uber £30-£35 every time.

Shuggie · Sep 22, 2017

dwayne said:
I've taken hundreds of Ubers over the years in many countries. I don't think I've ever encountered a disgruntled one. No one is forcing them to work and that's the beauty of the company, flexible working practice.

Don't believe everything you read in the press.

You think I don't use them in the US? Well, actually I don't unless I have to but if you want to see disgruntled Ubers, try Lyft or one of the others. You will hear a different story.

The daily incoming BA flight here used to be a lucrative opportunity for taxi drivers and in the early days of Uber. Now there's a feeding frenzy every night, the prices are great for consumers but rubbish for the Ubers. That's not beauty and it's not flexible working practice.

I think they are the worst kind of organisation: millions spent on legal teams to coerce, bully and overpower local governments; millions spent on subsidising market penetration. The result is fewer jobs for career taxi drivers on the one hand and more part-timers participating in the gig economy on the other. Ubers more often than not are on their 2nd or 3rd job trying to supplement the unnecessarily low wages imposed by the strong on the weak. Those without agency continue to struggle. Those with power continue to get richer. A terrible beauty.

While I'm here, anyone want 3 half-price tickets together for Sunday? Free for kids by the way. :albion2:

Like Uber, I will heavily subsidise early takers. However, this is because I would love three people to get the chance to see their team for a reasonable price rather than the seats being empty. Unlike Uber, there's no long-term pay off for me.

If any Uberfans (see what I did there?) want them, we can discuss the the toxic impact of Silicon Valley on the world to pass the time ... but you pay face value.

brightn'ove · Sep 22, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
The same black cabs that take veterans to Horse Guards, free of charge on Remembrance Sunday, and pick them up on Westminster Bridge, afterwards to take them to the stations? I've used a Poppy taxi myself.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...and-from-central-london-service-a3108966.html

The same black cabs who take disabled children out for a trip?
http://www.thelondontaxidriverschildrenscharity.co.uk/

Cycle in london and then you'll see their true colours.

Brighton Mod · Sep 22, 2017

Have many of the posters on here been in a black cab recently, how expensive! Uber will pick you up, notify who the driver is and there's no cash involved. If a driver provides one fare a day on his way home or going to work, how can he be designated as being employed, do Uber own the vehicles, have fuel cards or a designated start time for their drivers at specific locations? Denying Uber will be bad in terms of shared journeys and the cost of getting a cab, backward step I think.

The Spanish · Sep 22, 2017

brightn'ove said:
Cycle in london and then you'll see their true colours.

who's?

Gwylan · Sep 22, 2017

brightn'ove said:
Cycle in london and then you'll see their true colours.

I don't know what that's meant to mean. I spent 22 years in London, cycling pretty much every day - I had various jobs, with commuting distance of eight to 12 miles.

Black cab drivers are, by some distance, the most best sort of drivers to be round. They tend to give plenty of room and actually use indicators, something that most London drivers are clueless about. It's van and lorry drivers that are the biggest worry.

Brighton Mod · Sep 22, 2017

Shuggie said:
You think I don't use them in the US? Well, actually I don't unless I have to but if you want to see disgruntled Ubers, try Lyft or one of the others. You will hear a different story. The daily incoming BA flight here used to be a lucrative opportunity for taxi drivers and in the early days of Uber. Now there's a feeding frenzy every night, the prices are great for consumers but rubbish for the Ubers. That's not beauty and it's not flexible working practice. I think they are the worst kind of organisation: millions spent on legal teams to coerce, bully and overpower local governments; millions spent on subsidising market penetration. The result is fewer jobs for career taxi drivers on the one hand and more part-timers participating in the gig economy on the other. Ubers more often than not are on their 2nd or 3rd job trying to supplement the unnecessarily low wages imposed by the strong on the weak. Those without agency continue to struggle. Those with power continue to get richer. A terrible beauty.

Your suggestion that Black Cab drivers dont have a second income is preposterous, many Sainsbury drivers delivering to their own stores in HGV 1 vehicles are Black Cab drivers and its prety well known in the business. They will drive trucks under the strict regime of tachograph and driver hours laws and then jump in their cab and do another half shift. There are some very niaive people contributing to this thread.

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