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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
JC Footy Genius said:
I assumed the EU wouldn't take the estranged partner/petulant teenager line and work with us to find mutually beneficial solutions. If they really are intransigent enough to put political dogma over Eu citizens welfare then so be it. I am sure the German car manufacturers and wider business are applying as much pressure as their Uk equivalents behind the scenes.
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A fair point in many ways. But some of us framed Brexit as a 'lose-lose' from the outset and saw this (or something very similar) coming. As for your 'behind the scenes' comments, I think you might well have a point and I suspect that the 27 national governments might well 'have a view' which might yet influence outcomes although I'm not sure how. But let's be honest here: the Brexit campaign massively overplayed this card. In this respect the position of the Irish government is interesting as if you look at their trade pattern then the UK is their 'most significant other' but it hasn't stopped them playing hardball over the border issue.
 




G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
WATFORD zero said:
Word on the streets, apparently Theresa has found a solution to her customs Ireland/NI Customs Union/max fac issue.

Britain would agree to maintain the common external tariff – the import tax levied on goods coming into the EU and align all its regulations with Europe’s.

But Britain would seek to opt out of the common commercial policy, which prevents member countries from negotiating independent trade deals.

So all our regulations are still controlled by the EU (with no input from us), but we can do our own trade deals. Very much like we agreed in the last minute panic back in December.

And it looks like details of the further extension are starting to firm up.

All of this, of course, would have to be agreed by the EU if the government finally agrees to put this forward as the UK option.

Hands up who voted for that ???
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Looks interesting but any further details welcome - references/link?
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,303
WATFORD zero said:
Hands up who voted for that ???
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in a holistic view, everyone: we leave EU (leavers happy) but we stay under the guidance of the EU (remainers happy). at least if we had competent politicians they might be able to spin that line, instead it will be seen as a betrayal/disaster that no one wants.

whats the solve for headline issue of immigration in this scenario? free movement stays, goes, or they apply the original rules dressed up as part of agreement?
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,809
beorhthelm said:
in a holistic view, everyone: we leave EU (leavers happy) but we stay under the guidance of the EU (remainers happy). at least if we had competent politicians they might be able to spin that line, instead it will be seen as a betrayal/disaster that no one wants.

whats the solve for headline issue of immigration in this scenario? free movement stays, goes, or they apply the original rules dressed up as part of agreement?
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But I was told Brexit wasn't about immigration, was it ? :angel:
 






G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,336
Uffern
JC Footy Genius said:
I am sure the German car manufacturers and wider business are applying as much pressure as their Uk equivalents behind the scenes.
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This idea keeps coming up - even though car manufacturers have made it quite clear that they're happy to absorb the financial loss from the UK market for the longer term benefits of the single market.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-germany-bmw-elmar-brok-eu-parliament-steering-group

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/08/german-industry-warns-uk-over-brexit



Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Looks interesting but any further details welcome - references/link?
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That's not top secret, it was in the news yesterday. It's just a re-affirmation of the December agreement
 






beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,303
WATFORD zero said:
But I was told Brexit wasn't about immigration, was it ? :angel:
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not for me, no one can deny it was a significant factor. any solution that doesnt give something is going to be difficult sell to the wider public that aren't too interested in trade.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,303
Gwylan said:
This idea keeps coming up - even though car manufacturers have made it quite clear that they're happy to absorb the financial loss from the UK market for the longer term benefits of the single market.
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what pro-europe industry leaders say in public and private are different creatures, they just do politics well. dont believe they really would be happy with losing such a substantial market.
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,809
beorhthelm said:
what pro-europe industry leaders say in public and private are different creatures, they just do politics well. dont believe they really would be happy with losing such a substantial market.
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I don't wish to appear rude, but read the bloody sentence

Gwylan said:
This idea keeps coming up - even though car manufacturers have made it quite clear that they're happy to absorb the financial loss from the UK market for the longer term benefits of the single market.
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There is no full stop after UK :facepalm:
 




Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Raleigh Chopper said:
A very small majority voted to leave, many would have changed their minds after this farce.
And many of the teenagers who should have been allowed to vote in the referendum will probably be old enough to vote in the next GE and most wanted to remain.
It's the kids who are mostly sick of this government for many reasons and will be old enough to vote that people like you want to worry about,
Rees Mogg and Boris in charge of the country, have a word with yourself you half wit.
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Typical remainer.Realise they have lost the argument and are talking utter drivel,so resort to personal abuse.I have tried to stay polite,but you really are a 'chopper'.You consider over a million votes a very small majority?No wonder you believed all Osborne's rubbish,you yokel.:hilton:
 


G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,336
Uffern
beorhthelm said:
what pro-europe industry leaders say in public and private are different creatures, they just do politics well. dont believe they really would be happy with losing such a substantial market.
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Maybe ... but in my experience (both personally and in business), Germans tend to say what they think.

No, they wouldn't be happy about losing a substantial market (although the losses are exaggerated, Brits are going to buy cars from somewhere) but may think the losses from the destruction of the single market would outweigh the losses from the UK.
 


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,575
Gods country fortnightly
Gwylan said:
This idea keeps coming up - even though car manufacturers have made it quite clear that they're happy to absorb the financial loss from the UK market for the longer term benefits of the single market.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-germany-bmw-elmar-brok-eu-parliament-steering-group

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/08/german-industry-warns-uk-over-brexit





That's not top secret, it was in the news yesterday. It's just a re-affirmation of the December agreement
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900k jobs involved in Automotive manufacturing and related industries

900k families

The stakes are high, especially in areas that need these jobs most
 




L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Gwylan said:
Maybe ... but in my experience (both personally and in business), Germans tend to say what they think.

No, they wouldn't be happy about losing a substantial market (although the losses are exaggerated, Brits are going to buy cars from somewhere) but may think the losses from the destruction of the single market would outweigh the losses from the UK.
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No link I'm afraid but I recall a Quandt family spokesman saying that they would be prepared to take a heavy hit on BMW's UK investment if it meant retaining the integrity of the Single Market. I doubt he was being altruistic. It is worth remembering that it is this sort of long term thinking that has helped Germany industry get where it is. Brexiteers don't seem to understand this, assuming that a refusal to accede to UK demands results from adolescent petulance or a desire to punish the plucky Brits.
 


D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
Plooks said:
Brexiteers are not plucky or British by any definition. They run away from issues instead of facing them. If they had any fight or self worth they would stand up against the things they dont like about the EU and change them. Not run away crying because they don't like it and can't get their own way.
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You mean like free movement. I would like to change it, now go and ask the EU for the answer. This is the core of the problem, the EU don't listen. It's not us leavers that are the problem. End of story.
 




Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Plooks said:
Brexiteers are not plucky or British by any definition. They run away from issues instead of facing them. If they had any fight or self worth they would stand up against the things they dont like about the EU and change them. Not run away crying because they don't like it and can't get their own way.
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Bollocks, we faced the issue of leave or remain in the EU and we won the vote ,unfortunately there's a small minority floating around with snidey agendas trying to disrupt that procedure
regards
DR
 




Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,005
The arse end of Hangleton
Plooks said:
Brexiteers are not plucky or British by any definition. They run away from issues instead of facing them. If they had any fight or self worth they would stand up against the things they dont like about the EU and change them. Not run away crying because they don't like it and can't get their own way.
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You mean like people that run away from the UK because they don't have the fight or self worth to help change things for the better ? ???
 




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