World Athletics Championships London 2017

hart's shirt · Aug 5, 2017

(From the BBC website)

The medal ceremony for the 100m final is tomorrow.

Quite possibly just after Jessica Ennis-Hill is handed upgraded gold after being beaten by a doped Tatyana Chernova at the 2011 Worlds.

The atmosphere for that should be...interesting.

Stat Brother · Aug 5, 2017

Still it could be worse:-

Thankfully so many lessons have been learned, there was only 2 convicted drugs cheats on the start line tonight.

Thunder Bolt · Aug 5, 2017

Bry Nylon said:
Are you Usain's mum?

I'd be proud to be.

crodonilson · Aug 5, 2017

Driver8 said:
I was there tonight and I booed him because he's a cheat. I hope they are testing him thoroughly tonight.

I am sure they will and if his tests come back negative?

Driver8 · Aug 5, 2017

crodonilson said:
I am sure they will and if his tests come back negative?

Still a cheat.

crodonilson · Aug 5, 2017

Driver8 said:
Still a cheat.

Boo boo Aussie didn't win, he didn't even finish 2nd. Why not keep returning the race until you get the result you want. He lost, get over it, and so should the BBC. Some of the worst most biased commentary I've ever heard tonight.

soistes · Aug 5, 2017

Having watched it all evening, I feel that the real excitement was watching the imperious performance of Almaz Ayana in the Women's 10,000m. It seems to have been rather unfairly eclipsed by all the tedious Bolt/Gaitlin discussion, which is a shame - it's really unusual to see a field of elite runners get completely taken apart by the lead runner in that way. She finished 45 seconds or so ahead of the other Ethiopian (who herself put in a pretty good run). By comparison there was only just over one second separating Mo Farah from the Kenyan bronze medallist last night in the men's 10,000m.

PS: although I now note that Liz McGolgan has been claiming on twitter that Ayana must have been doping to put in a performance like that.

Frutos · Aug 6, 2017

crodonilson said:
Boo boo Aussie didn't win, he didn't even finish 2nd. Why not keep returning the race until you get the result you want. He lost, get over it, and so should the BBC. Some of the worst most biased commentary I've ever heard tonight.

It's Christian Coleman I feel most sorry for - fairly beats the greatest ever in a World final, but doesn't get the gold because of a convicted cheat.

The only way the IAAF will clean up the sport, as they profess to want to do, is lifetime bans for those caught cheating - until then, good on the crowd for treating him with the contempt he deserves.

Thunder Bolt · Aug 6, 2017

crodonilson said:
Boo boo Aussie didn't win, he didn't even finish 2nd. Why not keep returning the race until you get the result you want. He lost, get over it, and so should the BBC. Some of the worst most biased commentary I've ever heard tonight.

https://twitter.com/jonbir90/status/893947320554881024

[tweet]893947320554881024[/tweet]

Stat Brother · Aug 6, 2017

Frutos said:
It's Christian Coleman I feel most sorry for - fairly beats the greatest ever in a World final, but doesn't get the gold because of a convicted cheat.

The only way the IAAF will clean up the sport, as they profess to want to do, is lifetime bans for those caught cheating - until then, good on the crowd for treating him with the contempt he deserves.

It's not the only way.

The similarities, even from the very beginning of the modern era, between athletics and cycling means you might as well be talking about the same sport.

The only difference is cycling finally confronted it's demons and as a result it's 20 years ahead of athletics, and for that matter all other sports.

No lifetime bans have been handed out because that doesn't acknowledge the fact 'everybody is at it'.
Sure hundreds of 2-4 year bans have and occasionally still are being dished out, but that's only dealing with part of problem.

Doping is an endemic and generational problem in athletics (sport) so the entire mindset has to be altered, and all the time someone with the best drug programme can still beat the system, 'everyone else' is going to try.

Frutos · Aug 6, 2017

Stat Brother said:
It's not the only way.

The similarities, even from the very beginning of the modern era, between athletics and cycling means you might as well be talking about the same sport.

The only difference is cycling finally confronted it's demons and as a result it's 20 years ahead of athletics, and for that matter all other sports.

No lifetime bans have been handed out because that doesn't acknowledge the fact 'everybody is at it'.
Sure hundreds of 2-4 year bans have and occasionally still are being dished out, but that's only dealing with part of problem.

Doping is an endemic and generational problem in athletics (sport) so the entire mindset has to be altered, and all the time someone with the best drug programme can still beat the system, 'everyone else' is going to try.

So what is the alternative way to solve it?

If cycling is, as you claim, 20 years ahead of other sports, have they solved the problem?

Stat Brother · Aug 6, 2017

Frutos said:
So what is the alternative way to solve it?

If cycling is, as you claim, 20 years ahead of other sports, have they solved the problem?

Nobody is brave enough to say cycling has solved the problem, what it's done is minimize it.

What cycling did, is doing, is going after accountability, the teams are responsible for the actions of their riders, and the teams are paying for it, literally.

Each of the 20 World Tour teams have to pay £250,000 a year for drug testing.
All riders like athletics have biological passports, and have to submit their locations in advance.
But unlike athletics, because cycling is facing up to it's issues, these are strictly adhered too, cyclists don't miss locations, anymore.
Riders who are caught doping are banned.
Riders would are suspicious are sacked.
Teams frequently search riders private belongs.
Following any cyclists twitter feed and before long you'll read, 'watching Love Island with the testers - I still don't need a pee'.
Cycling routinely test blood and urine, as urine tests are easily masked.

A couple of years ago, at the Tour the testers made the odd decision to test the entire Movistar team, after breakfast, on the rest day.
Then they went back and tested the whole team again, later in the same day.

Basically cycling finally took testing, punishment, and rehab seriously.

ProTour riders wouldn't able to skulk off to the arse end of Africa for months at a time safe in the knowledge they wouldn't be tested.

Frutos · Aug 6, 2017

Stat Brother said:
Basically cycling finally took testing, punishment, and rehab seriously.

What kind of serious punishments have been imposed for those found to have cheated?

Stat Brother · Aug 6, 2017

Frutos said:
What kind of serious punishments have been imposed for those found to have cheated?

Riders will be banned or sacked, which is much the same as they're instantly persona non grata.
Pro-tour teams would be removed, but as that hasn't happened it again suggests team wide doping is in the past.
What has happened is second tier teams become blacklisted, and don't receive invitations to lucrative events.

Doping in amatuer cycling is at an all time high, esp in it's heartland of Italy and Spain.
Consequently both countries have by far their smallest ever representation at the World Tour level.
But on the flipside France who has had draconian civil punishment for doping, for the past x years, is now seeing it's WT representation expanding massively and at the sharp end of races.

Frutos · Aug 6, 2017

Stat Brother said:
Pro-tour teams would be removed, but as that hasn't happened it again suggests team wide doping is in the past.

To play devil's advocate, it could also mean that teams have found ways to beat the system? Of course it will be hard, but as long as the punishments aren't a real deterrant (as an instant lifetime ban would be), then I'd bet my bottom dollar that people and teams will still try.

At the end of the day, as long as sport still condones druggies by only giving them limited punishments, then sport will still have a drug problem.

Athletes need to see highest possible professional consequence for their actions, as well as much stricter testing regimens, and those need to be applied consistently and without exception - then you'll really see the problem minimize.

Stat Brother · Aug 6, 2017

Frutos said:
To play devil's advocate, it could also mean that teams have found ways to beat the system? Of course it will be hard, but as long as the punishments aren't a real deterrant (as an instant lifetime ban would be), then I'd bet my bottom dollar that people and teams will still try.

At the end of the day, as long as sport still condones druggies by only giving them limited punishments, then sport will still have a drug problem.

Athletes need to see highest possible professional consequence for their actions, and that needs to be applied consistently and without exception - then you'll really see the problem minimize.

Which is why nobody will ever say 'cycling is clean'.

You realise you're contradicting yourself.
People will always try to cheat, that's how we got here in the first place.
Cheating, top to bottom, is considerably more profitable than clean sport.
Athletes will happily pay for the best products to give them the edge, maintaining the cycle.
For every sportsperson caught someone else will be ready to take their place.

(Please excuse the hideous leap) I'm sure we both condone the death sentence if for no other reason than the fact it doesn't work, why would a professional death sentence suddenly be a success?

What I'm saying is cycling is cleaner than most sports, and certainly cleaner than it has ever been, because cycling has been there done that and finally met the problem head on.
There's a whole generation of riders winning clean whilst adhering to a considerably stricter code than is in any other sport.

It's on going, it certainly didn't happen over night, or as fast as those demanding life time bans, of which there are plenty.

I noted last night there were 4 or 5 'kids' on the start line.
How many of those do you expect to make it through their career without a drugs ban?

Something has to be done, but like in all change, sporting, social, economical, it's never going to be as quick enough for those who want it the most.

Frutos · Aug 6, 2017

Stat Brother said:
There's a whole generation of riders winning clean whilst adhering to a considerably stricter code than is in any other sport.

Devil's Advocate again: are they winning clean or are they beating the system?

Neither of us can say for sure, of course, but as you said yourself athletes are always looking for an edge of some kind.

Removing proven cheats from the sport for good is the best way to remove the disease, because that is what doping in sport is: a disease.

Bry Nylon · Aug 6, 2017

Frutos said:
Athletes need to see highest possible professional consequence for their actions, as well as much stricter testing regimens, and those need to be applied consistently and without exception - then you'll really see the problem minimize.

I think elite athletes also need to paid far more.

It is totally unacceptable that someone as talented as Mo Farah, for example, should have to struggle though life with something as basic as a broken doorbell. Imagine trying to focus on the build-up to 2012 Olympics and not being able to hear that people have popped by to see you on multiple occasions.It must be really frustrating.

Stat Brother · Aug 6, 2017

Frutos said:
Devil's Advocate again: are they winning clean or are they beating the system?

Neither of us can say for sure, of course, but as you said yourself athletes are always looking for an edge of some kind.

Removing proven cheats from the sport for good is the best way to remove the disease, because that is what doping in sport is: a disease. If you have a tumour, you cut it out - the same needs to apply in these cases.

The current crop are clean, and those that aren't are caught.
This generation of cyclists are the every epitome of 'paying for someone else's crime'.

You're assuming it's just the athletes, it's not it's the coaches, managers, physios, doctors, sponsors, manufacturers, governing bodies. Everybody has their sticky little fingers in the pie, and none of them care about someone getting a lifetime ban, 'they were just stupid enough to get caught'.

Seb Coe is totally in bed with Nike, follow that path down.

Cycling cost itself so much money, it's lost so many events, because the entire sport wasn't sustainable without the omerta.
Everybody turning a blind eye, scratching each others back, paying lip service after the latest drug fuelled death, until finally it all imploded around the 'saviour of the sport'.

That's what has to happen, the whole thing has to be properly ripped down, and start again, handing out life bans to a few athletes that aren't box office isn't going to make that happen.
Neither is handing out life bans to the life blood (no pun intended) of the sport.

Frutos · Aug 6, 2017

Bry Nylon said:
I think elite athletes also need to paid far more.

It is totally unacceptable that someone as talented as Mo Farah, for example, should have to struggle though life with something as basic as a broken doorbell. Imagine trying to focus on the build-up to 2012 Olympics and not being able to hear that people have popped by to see you on multiple occasions.It must be really frustrating.

Agreed.

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World Athletics Championships London 2017

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