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[Football] Is the FA Cup such a big deal as a lower Premier League club?



Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
My thoughts. You have a reasonable chance of being knocked out by a lower league club, especially away from home. Survival in the Premier League takes preference. If a team does go through and draws one of the big boys, so what they already play each other twice a season anyway.

What would have been a “Wow, we’ve drawn one of the big six at home (not quite so wow away) becomes “oh feck we’ve drawn a big boy who has already beaten us every time we’ve played them already this season”

The only positives, if you are playing a lower league team, is that it’s a rest from the weekly defensive grind and a chance to get a bit of confidence back into the team. Against lower league teams you get the chance to rest players and put in the fringe players. Do that against a top team and you are likely to get mulllered.

Thoughts on an FA Cup we weekend.

Is this defeatist bullshit?

I would have posted a poll but Harry Wilson’s tackle scares me :wink:
 


Postman Pat

Well-known member
Jul 24, 2007
6,971
Coldean
For most of the bottom end of the Premier League, staying up is all important, but I would suggest for the established clubs, Leicester, Everton, Burnley (got a bad draw unfortunately), probably chuck in Palace too, the FA cup should be a high priority.

They probably are not going to get relegated and are not going to make the top 4/6 so go for it, give the fans a decent day out and maybe win a cup if the big boys get knocked out on the way.

For the likes of us, league comes first, and if teams get lucky with the draws and suddenly they are in the quarters then who knows.

If we do manage to stick around in the prem for a few seasons and become a mid-table team, what else is there to look forward to if there isn't a cup run to enjoy?
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
For most of the bottom end of the Premier League, staying up is all important, but I would suggest for the established clubs, Leicester, Everton, Burnley (got a bad draw unfortunately), probably chuck in Palace too, the FA cup should be a high priority.

They probably are not going to get relegated and are not going to make the top 4/6 so go for it, give the fans a decent day out and maybe win a cup if the big boys get knocked out on the way.

For the likes of us, league comes first, and if teams get lucky with the draws and suddenly they are in the quarters then who knows.

If we do manage to stick around in the prem for a few seasons and become a mid-table team, what else is there to look forward to if there isn't a cup run to enjoy?

I totally agree, having a cup run whilst being above the relegation scrap and getting consistent if not many stunning results would be fantastic. Having won once in 12 League games concentrates the mind on staying up or being well beaten by a lower league side.

Having said that I do want us to beat those Boro twats, as I want revenge for THAT game but not as much as I wanted us to beat Palace though :smile:
 


Postman Pat

Well-known member
Jul 24, 2007
6,971
Coldean
Having said that I do want us to beat those Boro twats, as I want revenge for THAT game but not as much as I wanted us to beat Palace though :smile:

It is amusing that we are getting a chance to get a little bit of retribution against the teams that denied us going up.

Sheff Wed in the next round? Pity Derby are already out.
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
69,888
It always seems to me a bit laughable of a lower PL club to think it's smart enough to pick and choose which cup/league games to put a full strength side out for in order to go for a win, and which games to effectively 'throw'. It's an insult to the fans that pay good money to watch games, and it invariably goes wrong anyway.
 




Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
It is amusing that we are getting a chance to get a little bit of retribution against the teams that denied us going up.

Sheff Wed in the next round? Pity Derby are already out.

Assuming we get through Weds at home would be great
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
It always seems to me a bit laughable of a lower PL club to think it's smart enough to pick and choose which cup/league games to put a full strength side out for in order to go for a win, and which games to effectively 'throw'. It's an insult to the fans that pay good money to watch games, and it invariably goes wrong anyway.

Not really, we fans know why it happens, or maybe that has passed you by? :lolol:
 






GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,481
Gloucester
Not really, we fans know why it happens, or maybe that has passed you by? :lolol:
Nothing has passed us by. We know the reasons it happens - and some of us think those reasons are shit.

Winning is a habit - and so is not winning. And right now we've got a big not-winning habit we need to get out of fast.
 


Billy the Fish

Technocrat
Oct 18, 2005
17,472
Haywards Heath
Disagree, think it should be important for any club in the Premier League to try and win the cup.

You play fewer games in this division and everyone has bigger squads.

Last season I couldn't give a stuff about the cup because we were already playing Saturday and Tuesday most weeks and any injuries could've really stuffed our promotion. This season we've had hardly any midweek games and we have good players on the bench who need game time. We really should be strong enough to cope with a cup run.
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Nothing has passed us by. We know the reasons it happens - and some of us think those reasons are shit.

Winning is a habit - and so is not winning. And right now we've got a big not-winning habit we need to get out of fast.

In our position potentially getting key players injured would probably be terminal to our season. If they are going to get that sort of injury in a League game, too bad. If they got them in a Cup game it would be far more annoying, as it would have been avoidable.

Any season you aren’t fighting for promotion or against relegation I’d expect to see a full strength team in Cup games. It is almost irresponsible to do that if you are in a critical position in the league though, hence very few teams involved at the top or bottom do it.

I love the cups but in the last three seasons they are a bit of an irrelevance imo. I was there when we got to the Cup Final, it did not make relegation, probably because of it, any easier to take at all.
 




Turkey

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2003
15,568
I've never seen us have a good cup run - I'm not including the Paint Pot Semi against Luton.. - so I'd love to see us have a good run in the FA Cup.

I don't think it's as big a problem as some would suggest - 3rd Round has its own dedicated weekend with an entire week between it and league games. If we mess up the next 4 league games, most people seem to believe that we'll be down anyway. 3 of those 4 league games before the next round date, hopefully our fringe side win today.
 




Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
This. All day long.

Care to elaborate as to why it’s a shit reason taking into account that you know why it happens. If push came to shove would you be happy with a great Cup run and relegation because of it?

I wouldn’t, been there done it and don’t want o do it again....personally. Totally accept others like [MENTION=5]Turkey[/MENTION] who have never seen a decent Cup run might run with it.

Again there is also the risk that we lose in the FA Cup due to playing a weakened side AND get relegated, but it does change the odds by not playing a full strength team
 






GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,481
Gloucester
In our position potentially getting key players injured would probably be terminal to our season. If they are going to get that sort of injury in a League game, too bad. If they got them in a Cup game it would be far more annoying, as it would have been avoidable.

Any season you aren’t fighting for promotion or against relegation I’d expect to see a full strength team in Cup games. It is almost irresponsible to do that if you are in a critical position in the league though, hence very few teams involved at the top or bottom do it.

I love the cups but in the last three seasons they are a bit of an irrelevance imo. I was there when we got to the Cup Final, it did not make relegation, probably because of it, any easier to take at all.

Right then - an injury to which player, precisely, would be 'terminal for our season'. Dunk? Bring in Goldson or Hunnemeier. Knocky? - we've got March and Izzy (I suggest it's OK to start calling him Izzy now that there is no confusion). Murray (if he isn't involved elsewhere)? - Locadia. Ryan? - bring in Maenpaa or Krul. And so on and so on..........

On the other hand, play the strongest team, go for it, probably won't get a season-ending injury anyway, win a match and get some momentum going. Do you seriously think the players will be less motivated and energised if we go on a thrilling cup run, two games from Wembley? I don't!
 


Guy Fawkes

The voice of treason
Sep 29, 2007
8,187
It always seems to me a bit laughable of a lower PL club to think it's smart enough to pick and choose which cup/league games to put a full strength side out for in order to go for a win, and which games to effectively 'throw'. It's an insult to the fans that pay good money to watch games, and it invariably goes wrong anyway.

I would have looked at it as our not wanting a draw and a replay meaning that if we go ahead, we try to keep our lead and progress in the competition, should we fall behind, it's highly unlikely we will go for it in order to try to turn it around especially if it is getting late in the game against M'eh opposition (like a Reading or someone, however if there was an edge to it, like playing Palace, then it would be different.

However with that said, it does give the fringe players a chance to do well and impress in an effort to try to dislodge a first XI player from the starting line up, so you'd hope they would be well up for it and wanting to progress

League is the priority and should remain so, especially as the money a cup run provides is tiny in comparison with the league
 






Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Right then - an injury to which player, precisely, would be 'terminal for our season'. Dunk? Bring in Goldson or Hunnemeier. Knocky? - we've got March and Izzy (I suggest it's OK to start calling him Izzy now that there is no confusion). Murray (if he isn't involved elsewhere)? - Locadia. Ryan? - bring in Maenpaa or Krul. And so on and so on..........

On the other hand, play the strongest team, go for it, probably won't get a season-ending injury anyway, win a match and get some momentum going. Do you seriously think the players will be less motivated and energised if we go on a thrilling cup run, two games from Wembley? I don't!

Going against the grain on NSC I suggest a long term injury to Stephens would be pretty catastrophic. Kayal is a more than adequate replacement for Propper but is he for Stephens, he is also a bit injury prone himself so who knows how he’d stand up to five or six games on the bounce. Schelotto getting injured would be bad news too as Bruno is not up to playing every game effectively, again just my opinion. Murray getting injured before Locadia is fit would also be bad news as much as Hemed tries he is not Premier League quality imo.

Motivation? An upcoming FA Cup game might just make players maybe 10 percent less committed in a league game a few days beforehand.

It’s all hypothetical though, suffice it to say we disagree on this, I am more than happy for us to play a decent side (and our squad is decent) rather than the first choice team in a Cup game.
 


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
I think it is important because in an age of big squads it gives managers a 'free go' at looking and experimenting with their squad. This is now another game for us to look at Baldock as a prime example. You want games for the players not always getting in the side. If you get to the 6th round, you can start taking it properly seriously, but 3rd to 5th I think it can provide you with vital information about the health of your overall side. We need these games, and let us not forget our starting XI today pretty much got us to within GD of promotion 2 seasons ago.
 



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