The assertion that science is not a medicine is hotly contested and there are compelling arguments for and against.
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
[News] Should Having Asperger's Syndrome Be A Valid Get Out Of Jail Card?
- Thread starter Tom Hark Preston Park
- Start date
The assertion that science is not a medicine is hotly contested and there are compelling arguments for and against.
Yes I found it very helpful in processing the events of the day. I tried to highlight the positives while still talking about the stresses and strains. I have always found it so hard to explain the way things are because you hear a lot of 'yeah my kid does that too' one of the posts tries to explain that although many kids do these things with ours it is constant and the norm and extremely exhausting and draining.
I know exactly what you mean about school, our definition of a good day was no phone call from school for a long time. Any email from the school or phone was an instant blood pressure raiser. My wife would see the number and ignore the call so she could get a message and some info before she spoke to anyone.
he started at Secondary school last year and the first half of the year was business as usual but things improved in the second half. We were deliberately 'pain in the arse parents' and made sure shit was done and people were learning. We found that his head of year (and our suggested contact) didn't get it but the assistant Principal did. We just made the assistant principal our contact and worked through her to get the message to the teachers. the real tipping point I think was organising a huge meeting at school, i think there were 17 people in the room from Head and assistant head, well being officers , my wife and i and our crew of psychologists, Ot's etc etc. We sat for two hours and worked out a number of really good strategies, most of which had already been suggested but there is nothing like everyone being in the same room.
Things are good at the moment and he is concentrating on his studies. I was terrified to write that sentence and felt the foreboding of another crap day when when i did
good luck with it all, if you ever need to vent to someone feel free to message me. I had better d some work now
Top man, thanks for that. Good information to have
I may well call on you for some advice once the secondary school experience is under way, fingers crossed we’ve picked a better school, although further from home, it appears to be one better in tune and more willing to engage with us and with him. Cheers
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,161
- Thread starter
- #43
Thank you to all of those posters who have chosen to share your experiences of living with children with Autism and Asperger's. Can't have been easy for you to do that. Respect.
I've always said World War 3 won't be started by a Korean Dictator, the Trumps of this world or extremists living in a cave in the desert but by some 13 year old hacker with aspergers from his bedroom in Camberley.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,102
Good idea for a film, might be a few years too late.
Was war games based on Julian Assange? He did something similar.
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,303
not really, Assange just took a lot of credit, and money, from the risks others took acquiring confidential information.
I've just been reading this thread and found it very interesting as my younger brother has autism. Sadly, I think it's true that the majority of sufferers have social problems but that shouldn't affect their quality of life. Just a structured routine that they understand and keeping changes to a minimum. That works for my brother anyway.
severnside gull
Well-known member
I worked with young adults with learning disabilities, particularly Asperger's, for a number of years and have attended court as an expert witness on a number of occasions sometimes giving defending briefs what they hoped for, and sometimes very much not.
From that you can conclude that it is extremely complicated and each individual is different and can respond differently or be held to be differently accountable depending upon the circumstances.
Whenever I have given evidence it has been on knowing the defendant well, their background, the specific nature of their disability, their understanding of society and it's mores etc. I have on occasion given sworn evidence that I believed the young person accused to be aware of the difference between right and wrong in the circumstances they confronted and I have suggested that in my experience an appropriate sentence with accompanying support might be beneficial to their future engagement in society. I have also given evidence that in specific circumstances they might well not have understood the difference between perceived right and wrong and that sentencing might be inappropriate and indeed counterproductive.
Since retiring I've been asked to give evidence as an expert witness a few times and I've always declined on the basis that I don't know the individual or the circumstances sufficiently well.
In the case recently publicised it appears the experts were listened to. My own experience was invariably very positive. Indeed both the police and CPS always, in my experience, erred on the side of seeking understanding. I wonder how confident the court felt in the US legal system being equally circumspect?
From that you can conclude that it is extremely complicated and each individual is different and can respond differently or be held to be differently accountable depending upon the circumstances.
Whenever I have given evidence it has been on knowing the defendant well, their background, the specific nature of their disability, their understanding of society and it's mores etc. I have on occasion given sworn evidence that I believed the young person accused to be aware of the difference between right and wrong in the circumstances they confronted and I have suggested that in my experience an appropriate sentence with accompanying support might be beneficial to their future engagement in society. I have also given evidence that in specific circumstances they might well not have understood the difference between perceived right and wrong and that sentencing might be inappropriate and indeed counterproductive.
Since retiring I've been asked to give evidence as an expert witness a few times and I've always declined on the basis that I don't know the individual or the circumstances sufficiently well.
In the case recently publicised it appears the experts were listened to. My own experience was invariably very positive. Indeed both the police and CPS always, in my experience, erred on the side of seeking understanding. I wonder how confident the court felt in the US legal system being equally circumspect?
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
Exactly. The real story here is the one way extradition treaty signed by David Cameron that exposes British citizens to the American judicial system whilst our courts lack similar rights over American citizens. The gentleman involved will be tried in Britain as is his legal right.
Don't you mean 'medicine is not a science'? It is certainly not contested at all that science is a medicine. Regarding medicine being a science, it is also not contested in any way, at least by scientists (or by sensible medics - albeit not all are sensible and some advocate 'alternative' ways of measuring and modulating health). Medicine is a profession whose acolytes deliver 'healing'. This includes selecting and prescribing drugs, doing surgery, delivering warm words, and even dabbling in acupunture. There is no experiment, just 'best practice' and a hope that the otcome is desirable. The discovery of some (but not all) methods of healing (including some but not all drugs) may come about via the application of science, and current methods of proof of efficacy and safety adhere to scientific thinking (randomized double blind tests etc). But the delivery of medicine (the prctice of the art of medicine) is no more science than driving a car to work is engineering, or crosing the ball on to Murray's head is physiology, or switching the telly on is physics. Sorry to be a pedant, but I have to teach this stuff (and undertake research using the scientific method)
Don't you mean 'medicine is not a science'? It is certainly not contested at all that science is a medicine. Regarding medicine being a science, it is also not contested in any way, at least by scientists (or by sensible medics - albeit not all are sensible and some advocate 'alternative' ways of measuring and modulating health). Medicine is a profession whose acolytes deliver 'healing'. This includes selecting and prescribing drugs, doing surgery, delivering warm words, and even dabbling in acupunture. There is no experiment, just 'best practice' and a hope that the otcome is desirable. The discovery of some (but not all) methods of healing (including some but not all drugs) may come about via the application of science, and current methods of proof of efficacy and safety adhere to scientific thinking (randomized double blind tests etc). But the delivery of medicine (the prctice of the art of medicine) is no more science than driving a car to work is engineering, or crosing the ball on to Murray's head is physiology, or switching the telly on is physics. Sorry to be a pedant, but I have to teach this stuff (and undertake research using the scientific method)
Seriously, you teach what you have posted above? Really? Wow. Just wow.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,102
Are you going to share any of these arguments or just sneer at other people doing so?
Maybe you could confirm that you actually meant 'The assertion that science is not a medicine' rather than the rather more logical 'medicine is not a science'.
Perfidious Albion
Well-known member
Coming back to the case of the U K hacker.. most of us care less about his medical conditions as for the principle that if you break U K law ( particularly as a Brit) you should be tried here , not extadited to the USA to face the wrath of their patriotism.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,303
some of us appreciate that if you commit an offense in another country they might want to try you for that crime there. with computer crime, its possible to be in one place and commit the crime elsewhere. if you dont want to face wrath of a nations criminal justice system, dont commit crime.
