Ched Evans

Barry Stir · Oct 21, 2014

I'm not confusing it at all. Although beyond reasonable doubt and sure, mean the same thing, judges in criminal cases are advised by their Crown Court Bench Book to direct a jury that for the Crown to prove their case they have to satisfy the jury so that they are sure. Judges are also warned in that book not to elaborate on the meaning or to try further explanation of the word sure.

JCL - the new kid in town · Oct 21, 2014

drew said:
He didn't say that and I think you probably know that!!!

Yes I did know that, I was just extrapolating slightly from the original point. It's not that different from what was suggested and trying to point out that just because you've done something before it isn't necessarily relevant to what you choose to do in the future.

drew · Oct 21, 2014

JCL - the new kid in town said:
Yes I did know that, I was just extrapolating slightly from the original point. It's not that different from what was suggested and trying to point out that just because you've done something before it isn't necessarily relevant to what you choose to do in the future.

It's quite a lot different. Nobody has suggested that wives or prostitutes cannot be raped but the very nature of the offence makes it very hard to prove. A propensity for someone to regularly get drunk and sleep with strangers may cast doubt in the minds of the jury.

JCL - the new kid in town · Oct 21, 2014

drew said:
It's quite a lot different. Nobody has suggested that wives or prostitutes cannot be raped but the very nature of the offence makes it very hard to prove. A propensity for someone to regularly get drunk and sleep with strangers may cast doubt in the minds of the jury.

Ok fair enough I probably exaggerated a little but I was trying to put a scenario where past actions aren't relevant.

Acker79 · Oct 21, 2014

drew said:
I'm aware that the law was set out and that the basis was whether the two defendants could reasonably have presumed that consent had been given. In the case of McDonald, the consent is presumed because she got in a cab to go to the hotel with him however, the point I'm making is that if this women was as paralytic as she claims then how did she know she was even going to a hotel and therefore how can they take that as consent.

With regard to your comment regarding reasonable doubt, when did that change? Are you just confusing how a judge describes the meaning to a jury?

It doesn't matter if she knew where she was going or not. It's about MacDonald's perception of the evening. They have decided that it was reasonable for MacDonald to believe she was willingly going with him and to take that as consent, they didn't decide that she did know.

At the risk of seeming like I'm trying to change the argument, I suppose it's possible that they didn't totally believe MacDonald, but there was reasonable doubt, that is, they suspect he knew she was out of it and was taking advantage of her, but the circumstances of her going with him were such that there was a possibility he didn't know she was out it so they had to find him not guilty because of reasonable doubt.

Kosh · Oct 21, 2014

Husty said:
Jesus Christ man it's the internet, I thought you were talking bollocks so I clicked a

So let me get this straight, you condone his actions? Oddball/weird stance, but o k a y. That's the only conclusion I can draw, based on my original post, yet you chose to respond with an insult and nothing constructive. As I say o k a y, you're obviously an Evans sympathiser akin to [MENTION=5208]drew[/MENTION], I guess as he says 'this is the 21st century' and the 'standards' of people willing to risk being put in jail to bed a 'bird' - well that's clearly something a guy with a modicum of decency could never understand. This is the 'internet' ahem (wtf?), so you get what you give 'man'. Yeah whatever.

Kosh

pornomagboy · Oct 21, 2014

Sign him up least he can score

daveybgtt · Oct 21, 2014

Shut up you mongs, you won't change each others minds so maybe stop arguing and do something useful with your lives?

Barry Stir · Oct 21, 2014

I'm not sure why having perfectly healthy disagreement about an interesting subject makes us 'mongs'?

Tooting Gull · Oct 21, 2014

Barry Stir said:
I'm not sure why having perfectly healthy disagreement about an interesting subject makes us 'mongs'?

To be fair, the same arguments have been going for 34 pages. *Edit* Make that 35 and counting.

drew · Oct 21, 2014

Kosh said:
So let me get this straight, you condone his actions? Oddball/weird stance, but o k a y. That's the only conclusion I can draw, based on my original post, yet you chose to respond with an insult and nothing constructive. As I say o k a y, you're obviously an Evans sympathiser akin to [MENTION=5208]drew[/MENTION], I guess as he says 'this is the 21st century' and the 'standards' of people willing to risk being put in jail to bed a 'bird' - well that's clearly something a guy with a modicum of decency could never understand. This is the 'internet' ahem (wtf?), so you get what you give 'man'. Yeah whatever.

Kosh

Sorry but you seem to make out that I believe he is innocent. Without going back through the whole thread, I don't think I have ever said I believed he is innocent. The whole thrust of my posts has been to suggest that there is no way that the jury could be sure (or believe beyond reasonably doubt) that he did do it. As for decency, I am probably more akin to your own standards but that doesn't make me blinkered to think that drunken liaisons don't occur! They don't all end up with a court case for rape.

vegster · Oct 22, 2014

Just seen some of his video performance on the news, his girlfriend seems really pleased to have him back in her bed.

Mr Bridger · Oct 23, 2014

vegster said:
Just seen some of his video performance on the news, his girlfriend seems really pleased to have him back in her bed.

WHAT! They showed him goosing his girlfriend on his release!!

clippedgull · Nov 11, 2014

Although no contract has yet been (publicly) offered. Evans has resumed training with Sheff Utd.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29980279

Blues Rock DJ · Nov 11, 2014

get him in here !!

albion534 · Nov 11, 2014

let him play, why should he be victimized when people like Marlon King and Luke Mcormack (sp) and even Lee Hughes get back to playing without a public outcry

flying high · Nov 11, 2014

If they are signing O Grady on loan perhaps we could sign him an improvement on what we have as a striker.

JamesAndTheGiantHead · Nov 11, 2014

I just feel sorry for Kevin McCabe, his comically dull name having to forever live in the shadow of his co-owners ridiculous moniker:

drew · Nov 11, 2014

albion534 said:
let him play, why should he be victimized when people like Marlon King and Luke Mcormack (sp) and even Lee Hughes get back to playing without a public outcry

I seem to recall there was a public outcry when each of them resumed their careers.

albion534 · Nov 11, 2014

drew said:
I seem to recall there was a public outcry when each of them resumed their careers.

Not like this, not with everyone jumping on the bandwagon

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