Is the Premiership that good?

Brian Fantana · Feb 27, 2015

Simster said:
I pretty much agree with all of this.

Although, with Richard Scudamore's bollocks ("we're not a charity - we're a great success story") ringing in my ears, it pleases me that the top flight teams have all been made to look a bit second rate this week.

That bloke is such a twunt. Ultimately, the Premier League's success is nothing to do with him, and yet he's a greedy **** when it comes to giving something back. It's entirely down to the changes in in the broadcasting industry over the last 20 years and the demand for football (and the new willingness to pay) in nations that have always traditionally been in our sphere of sporting influence. Any old tosser could make a fortune in those circumstances.

Yep, agreed.

RS bangs on as if he has created a great product which broadcasters are basically giving him a blank cheque for. For me, it's the other way around. The changes in the dynamics of the broadcasting industry have moulded the Premier League into what it is today. If Sky and BT walked away, they'd be in the shit. Any business model that relies SO heavily on one or two 'customers' can't really be considered 'a great success story', IMHO.

Gwylan · Feb 27, 2015

Brian Fantana said:
If Sky and BT walked away, they'd be in the shit. Any business model that relies SO heavily on one or two 'customers' can't really be considered 'a great success story', IMHO.

And if PL walked away, Sky would be similarly stuffed: they're tied together in a mutual embrace: if anything disrupt's the business model of either one of them, they're both doomed: it's not a good place to be in

BigGully · Feb 27, 2015

GingerBeerMan said:
The Premier League, it's been almost ten years.

As for the question, yes I think the Premier League is the best league in the world. The top two teams might not have the same quality as the German and Spanish leagues, but the level of teams spread through the league is much higher than any other league in the world. Most games below the top 8 in the Spanish, French, Italian and (somewhat) German leagues are almost near certainties. They don't have the close matches or number of upsets we have in the Premier League. On their day, most teams in the PL can beat any other team, and that's what makes it the best league in the world.

I'd say Germany are a very close second to the PL, but the fact there is only ever one team in it (in recent years) lets it down a lot. I love their footballing ethos though, cheap tickets, vocal fans who create an atmosphere and a league that is financially sustainable and stable.

You are correct, however I think we overestimate what other nations think.

Without a successful National Team and our clubs not dominating Europe then although our European neighbours might acknowledge that we might be the wealthiest league, I doubt they think it is the best, most not looking beyond Spain or Germany.

I agree that we have a unique depth of quality not just in the Premier League, we would totally dominate world football from League 1 down, undoubtedly.

I lived abroad in the 80's when we our domestic teams were good and even then although they enjoyed our 'cut and thrust' style, I was surprised that they also were a wee bit indifferent to our overall quality, I had grown up being told we are the best league in the world etc. but my German and Polish mates didnt agree, they also hadnt heard that the NHS was the envy of the world either .................

Gullflyinghigh · Feb 27, 2015

Simster said:
I pretty much agree with all of this.

Although, with Richard Scudamore's bollocks ("we're not a charity - we're a great success story") ringing in my ears, it pleases me that the top flight teams have all been made to look a bit second rate this week.

That bloke is such a twunt. Ultimately, the Premier League's success is nothing to do with him, and yet he's a greedy **** when it comes to giving something back. It's entirely down to the changes in in the broadcasting industry over the last 20 years and the demand for football (and the new willingness to pay) in nations that have always traditionally been in our sphere of sporting influence. Any old tosser could make a fortune in those circumstances.

Marvellous rant against Scudamore there, if I were wearing a hat it would be big tipped right now.

I'm looking forward to hearing him complain about the 2022 world cup damaging the integrity of the game (or something along those lines), just so it can be pointed out that he wanted the '39th game'...horrible man.

gordonchas · Feb 27, 2015

GingerBeerMan said:
the level of teams spread through the league is much higher than any other league in the world. Most games below the top 8 in the Spanish, French, Italian and (somewhat) German leagues are almost near certainties. They don't have the close matches or number of upsets we have in the Premier League.
.

Lethargic said:
n my view the bottom team of the Premier League would beat the bottom teams of the other leagues in Spain, Germany, Italy etc 9 out of 10 times.

These are common enough views and there's a drop of truth in it. Unfortunately, that's always buried beneath an avalanche of hype.

I will speak only about the Spanish League as I watch a lot of it and I am a season ticket holder at a La Liga club and I also watch loads of Premier League matches, and in my view the bottom half of La Liga would more than hold its own against the bottom of the Premier League. What evidence do I have? Not much, only what I see.

Even taking into consideration that over many years Spanish second-level teams have done much, much better in the Europa League than their English counterparts, here's a current comparison.

1st to 4th : PL 13 points, Spain 10
1st to Last: PL 42 points, Spain 42

Is there really any debate as to whether Real Madrid and Barcelona are currently better sides than Chelsea and Manchester City? If not, then with them being so strong, and with the lower league sides in Spain being, in your opinion, so weak, how is it that both Chelsea and Man City have lost fewer league games than Real Madrid and Barcelona?

BigGully · Feb 27, 2015

gordonchas said:
These are common enough views and there's a drop of truth in it. Unfortunately, that's always buried beneath an avalanche of hype.

I will speak only about the Spanish League as I watch a lot of it and I am a season ticket holder at a La Liga club and I also watch loads of Premier League matches, and in my view the bottom half of La Liga would more than hold its own against the bottom of the Premier League. What evidence do I have? Not much, only what I see.

Even taking into consideration that over many years Spanish second-level teams have done much, much better in the Europa League than their English counterparts, here's a current comparison.

1st to 4th : PL 13 points, Spain 10
1st to Last: PL 42 points, Spain 42

Is there really any debate as to whether Real Madrid and Barcelona are currently better sides than Chelsea and Manchester City? If not, then with them being so strong, and with the lower league sides in Spain being, in your opinion, so weak, how is it that both Chelsea and Man City have lost fewer league games than Real Madrid and Barcelona?

Gotta say, a very good and logical post ........

dejavuatbtn · Feb 27, 2015

No, it's not. It has far too many companies and corporations pumping more gas into it, inflating its profile higher and higher when, at the end of the day it's just a great big gravy train. Once you get on you're set up for life. The more people getting on, the more money it raises to keep it chugging along. Personally, I look forward to the day when the wheels fall off and we can get some sense and perspective back into our favourite pastime, and have some spare cash to spend on some of the more important things in life.

Publius Ovidius · Feb 27, 2015

To be fair the only side in England that looks like it would do well in the champions league is Chelsea and have been the last few seasons. They appear to be set up for European football and as much as people do not like Abramovitch, he is no fool and has built a club capable of challenging the barcelona's, bayern munich's and real madrids of this world.

Arsenal seem to be a club that is guaranteed to make it through the groups and that is a bout it and man City were extremely lucky to make it through and really struggle in Europe. Manure are on the wain and Tottenham and Liverpool flatter to deceive.

But as people have said, the broadcasters will persist in this " best league in the world" stuff because it sells tv packages. Yes it may be the best league, but it doesn't necessarily have the best teams.

GT49er · Feb 27, 2015

GingerBeerMan said:
The Premier League, it's been almost ten years.

Premier League - the Premiership ...... what does it matter? It's just the money. All the name changes are just corporate re-branding for commercial purposes. Let's say sod the corporate spin and just call it the first division, as it always was.

PS. First division clubs (unlike current PL clubs) dominated European football for a number of years (just saying, like).

crodonilson · Feb 26, 2020

Harry H said:
Given the poor results from the Premierships finest in Europe.
Is it as good as they say it is?

This post from Harry H still as pertinent today as it was exactly 5 years ago today. 3 English clubs in the Round of 16 CL and not a single goal scored yet.

:nono:

Here's hoping Mn City can buck that trend tonight and put a smile on the nations faces alongside Arsenal and Man Utd in the Europa tomorrow night.

The Optimist · Feb 26, 2020

crodonilson said:
This post from Harry H still as pertinent today as it was exactly 5 years ago today. 3 English clubs in the Round of 16 CL and not a single goal scored yet.

Here's hoping Mn City can buck that trend tonight and put a smile on the nations faces alongside Arsenal and Man Utd in the Europa tomorrow night.

Results will vary season to season but you can’t ignore that all 4 European finalists last year were English teams.

SAC · Feb 26, 2020

Based on watching MOTD, this season the PL has more poor teams in than I can remember. The fact that Sheffield United aren't really that good but are 7th shows how poor the league is. Poor (or erratic) Chelsea, United and Spurs teams are 4th, 5th and 6th. I don't even think Liverpool look any better than last season and are could finish the season with only one loss (still to come!) and 20 points clear.

Weststander · Feb 26, 2020

SAC said:
Based on watching MOTD, this season the PL has more poor teams in than I can remember. The fact that Sheffield United aren't really that good but are 7th shows how poor the league is. Poor (or erratic) Chelsea, United and Spurs teams are 4th, 5th and 6th. I don't even think Liverpool look any better than last season and are could finish the season with only one loss (still to come!) and 20 points clear.

What’s unique about this season is that 4 top6 clubs plus mega spending Everton, have all failed to win so many games:

Chelsea 52% non-win rate
ManU 59%
Arsenal 70%
Spurs 59%
Everton 63%

ManC & Liverpool are streets ahead again, imho ManC will win virtually PL game now on in, and end up miles better than whoever ends up 3rd.

The Wolves tie up with a super agent is working a treat again, many top players who’d walk into most first 11’s.

crodonilson · Feb 26, 2020

Great win for City tonight to keep the English flag flying high. Let's hope Man U and Arsenal can carry on the good work tomorrow.

Weststander · Feb 26, 2020

I thought Citeh would progress. The best squad on the planet with injured players back, Real a team on the decline for a while now.

Drebin · Feb 26, 2020

Weststander said:
What’s unique about this season is that 4 top6 clubs plus mega spending Everton, have all failed to win so many games:

Chelsea 52% non-win rate
ManU 59%
Arsenal 70%
Spurs 59%
Everton 63%

ManC & Liverpool are streets ahead again, imho ManC will win virtually PL game now on in, and end up miles better than whoever ends up 3rd.

The Wolves tie up with a super agent is working a treat again, many top players who’d walk into most first 11’s.

Three of the teams in your list have hired big names with little experience, Mourinho is working with half a squad and Ancelotti is still in the process of making Everton into a good team again, and is well on his way.

Jonathan Wilson on Football weekly has called it the rise of the middle class because some lower placed clubs are competing with top end clubs with wages because of the increased tv revenue, some clubs have hired progressive coaches with more experience at lower levels to compensate for lack of individual quality in their squad and some clubs as you say have a less traditional arrangement with agents.

The gap is getting smaller and I think it will continue to do so. Sheffield United are where they are because Chris Wilder is doing an outstanding job, but they are also having money pumped in by a new owner. It’s no fluke.

I think FFP is actually working now as clubs aren’t stockpiling talent like they used to. This has led to a more competitive league. Many say the quality of football is worse but I personally think the league hasn’t been in a better state for quite a while (even if we have a team running away with the title).

Wardy's twin · Feb 26, 2020

blimey i looked at the date of the first entry in this thread and wandered how he had posted it later than the current time and thought has my clock had stopped whilst completely missing it was started 5 years ago to the day and nearly to the hour...

Weststander · Feb 27, 2020

Europe:

Arsenal out
Spuds probably out
Liverpool potentially out
Chelsea as good as out

ManU knocked out a Belgium team
ManC on their way
Wolves through

A mixed picture at the CL last 16 stage and EL last 32.

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Is the Premiership that good?

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