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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,303
Herr Tubthumper said:
Why, in your opinion, do more Brits not move to Europe though? Why is there such a lack of desire?
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no idea. im from a family that are european friendly, with friends in France, Holland and Germany for decades, and traveled all over on holiday, but no suggestion to stay there. better to visit than live there? the language barrier? though i wonder how many europeans, relative to their respective populations, actually live in other nations.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,523
The Fatherland
beorhthelm said:
i wonder how many europeans, relative to their respective populations, actually live in other nations.
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I'd be interested to know this. Due to decades of displacement, moving borders and no physical borders Europe is quite fluid and I do believe mainland Europe has a different view on immigration. My own experience is that mainland Europeans can be quite a mixed bunch; you don't have to go too far back in families to find difference nations. This is just my experience though.
 


GoldWithFalmer

GoldWithFalmer

Seaweed! Seaweed!
Apr 24, 2011
12,687
SouthCoast
Herr Tubthumper said:
Why, in your opinion, do more Brits not move to Europe though? Why is there such a lack of desire?
Click to expand...

I suspect that it could be that it's clearly better here,easier and where the money is & that's why the population rises 350000 every year,but the reality is probably that many simply cannot afford to move overseas,also i think we (loose generalization here) may be a touch introverted as a nation,despite many years of overseas adventure,lastly i think that many have no want need or desire to learn a foreign language that is required to integrate..

In short i have probably described myself,in many ways,however i suspect i am not too far from the truth..

Like i say a lot of generalizations.
 


B

BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
Herr Tubthumper said:
I'd be interested to know this. Due to decades of displacement, moving borders and no physical borders Europe is quite fluid and I do believe mainland Europe has a different view on immigration. My own experience is that mainland Europeans can be quite a mixed bunch; you don't have to go too far back in families to find difference nations. This is just my experience though.
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I think you may be right to a point in terms of a mix bag but to discount the utter suspision and historical inherent dislike between some nations/areas within the continent is naive, it surpasses anything that the UK might have to offer, go and live and travel within Europe (as I am sure you do/have) and you will soon find a religious, political, historical and racial aspect that is absolutely fascinating and totally baffling to any UK national.

To the point where I think the current EU is actually driven by it, personally I love Europe and its distinct differences, I just dislike profoundly the political effort to ignore it and to try and dissolve it in a way that ultimately will never take the people with it, i understand why they might want it, but in its current form it is unobtainable.
 


pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Herr Tubthumper said:
Why, in your opinion, do more Brits not move to Europe though? Why is there such a lack of desire?
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Just a personal opinion but we have always been able to travel to Europe easily and without too much travelling to do, its on our doorstep so to speak. Brits do seem to go to far flung places, ive been close to moving twice abroad, Africa and USA, and if i was going to live overseas it would be there or Australia, maybe Far East,somewhere a little more adventurous.
Moving to Europe would just seem like moving next door and be going somewhere you can whizz over and visit for a weekend anyway......bit like Skegness.
 




McTavish

McTavish

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2014
1,562
Herr Tubthumper said:
Why, in your opinion, do more Brits not move to Europe though? Why is there such a lack of desire?
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I think a lot of it is due to language barriers. An average mainland European has a much better command of English than the average Brit has of any language apart from English for a number of reasons...and it's getting worse.
 


whitelion

whitelion

New member
Dec 16, 2003
12,828
Southwick
McTavish said:
I think a lot of it is due to language barriers. An average mainland European has a much better command of English than the average Brit has of any language apart from English for a number of reasons...and it's getting worse.
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A lot struggle with their mother tongue.
 








GoldWithFalmer

GoldWithFalmer

Seaweed! Seaweed!
Apr 24, 2011
12,687
SouthCoast
Don't know what it is with Saturday mornings but i have noticed a *non scientific trend,that our good friend [MENTION=33848]The Clamp[/MENTION] always seems more aggressive Saturday mornings

May be nothing in it though-

Posted by The Clamp on another thread-

Don't get caught up in polls. Even if "the majority" support Trump it doesn't make him any less of a c u n t. The majority of people are ****ing idiots. Just look at the leave voters on here. To a man, thick as pigshit.


Brilliant- :lol::lol:

Morning Mr Clamp :wave:

Post #743 http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...e-visit-to-the-United-Kingdom-petition/page75
 


S

Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
GoldWithFalmer said:
Don't know what it is with Saturday mornings but i have noticed a *non scientific trend,that our good friend [MENTION=33848]The Clamp[/MENTION] always seems more aggressive Saturday mornings

May be nothing in it though-

Posted by The Clamp on another thread-

Don't get caught up in polls. Even if "the majority" support Trump it doesn't make him any less of a c u n t. The majority of people are ****ing idiots. Just look at the leave voters on here. To a man, thick as pigshit.


Brilliant- :lol::lol:

Morning Mr Clamp :wave:

Post #743 http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...e-visit-to-the-United-Kingdom-petition/page75
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A remainer trying to stereotype Leavers whilst using language that he assumes a Leaver uses.
Nibble was so similar, has his PMT times.
 




GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,717
Gloucester
Soulman said:
A remainer trying to stereotype Leavers whilst using language that he assumes a Leaver uses.
Nibble was so similar, has his PMT times.
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You have to feel sorry for the sometimes abusive so-and-so, don't you. I mean, it must be infuriating, joining in so many arguments, and even starting new ones, with a win percentage lower than Gianfranco Zola!
 


S

Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
GT49er said:
You have to feel sorry for the sometimes abusive so-and-so, don't you. I mean, it must be infuriating, joining in so many arguments, and even starting new ones, with a win percentage lower than Gianfranco Zola!
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:thumbsup: I suppose it is not the winning it is the taking part.
 


alfredmizen

alfredmizen

Banned
Mar 11, 2015
6,342
Lincoln Imp said:
Not my words, but I suppose the issue for some of us is this.

“We hope to reach again a Europe united but purged of the slavery of ancient, classical times - a Europe in which men will be proud to say, ‘I am a European’. We hope to see a Europe where men of every country will think as much of being a European as of belonging to their native land, and that without losing any part of their love and loyalty to their birthplace. We hope that wherever they go in this wide domain, to which we set no limits in the European continent, they will truly feel ‘Here I am at home. I am a citizen of this country too.’”
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Are you posting cringeworthy bollox like this and expecting to be taken seriously?
 










pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Lincoln Imp said:
The terms of the Brexit deal are be discussed and dealt with in Parliament. Farron's position is that they should also be voted on by the public. In other words, he is suggesting the form of direct democracy you have favoured up until now rather than just the parliamentary procedures you have rejected until now. If parliament rejects the deal (which I doubt) May will call an election (which I would expect she will win). It is a complicated and nuanced position for sure and the Express article you salute, which does no more than report a properly-combative line of questioning by a BBC reporter, adds nothing to it. I am not sure when an article in the Express last added anything positive to anything but in all honesty I rarely see it.
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Yes after the Gov and The EU council conclude an agreement and our parliament will decide if the terms are acceptable.
If our parliament disagree ( I agree highly unlikely ) we will simply be leaving without an agreement in place and the treaties will cease to apply in accordance with article 50 because as you are aware the majority vote was to leave, parliament have voted to start the process of leaving and the High Court and Supreme Court have recently determined starting article 50 is irreversible,

So the options are in reality in accordance with the EU treaty,our parliament vote and the judiciary, Leave with terms agreed or Leave without.

The in steps fallon and says let the people vote as well but his version has any public rejection of the terms meaning we simply stay IN instead.

Now please explain how this is democratic when it goes against all due process. Parliament have just agreed to start the process of leaving, we have not agreed to start the process all over again of whether we stay IN or OUT.

And why would May call an election ( if parliament do not agree with the agreement), we would still be leaving anyway and an early election would bring nothing to the table (except a large tory win), if anything it would be an unwelcome distraction while the business of our Leaving is then forced to be concluded without an agreement. Not sure that sort of muddled timeline of crossed swords is in anyones interest.


Lincoln Imp said:
Not my words, but I suppose the issue for some of us is this.

“We hope to reach again a Europe united but purged of the slavery of ancient, classical times - a Europe in which men will be proud to say, ‘I am a European’. We hope to see a Europe where men of every country will think as much of being a European as of belonging to their native land, and that without losing any part of their love and loyalty to their birthplace. We hope that wherever they go in this wide domain, to which we set no limits in the European continent, they will truly feel ‘Here I am at home. I am a citizen of this country too.’”
Click to expand...

i prefer these Churchill words

"We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not comprised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed. And should European statesmen address us in the words which were used of old, 'Wouldest thou be spoken for to the king, or the captain of the host?', we should reply, with the Shunammite woman: 'I dwell among mine own people."

But that aside, in all seriousness, quoting someone who died over 50 years ago to try and point score an argument is rather pointless when the current surroundings are far more relevant to issues now as to circumstances observed many decades ago.
 




L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
pastafarian said:
Yes after the Gov and The EU council conclude an agreement and our parliament will decide if the terms are acceptable.
If our parliament disagree ( I agree highly unlikely ) we will simply be leaving without an agreement in place and the treaties will cease to apply in accordance with article 50 because as you are aware the majority vote was to leave, parliament have voted to start the process of leaving and the High Court and Supreme Court have recently determined starting article 50 is irreversible,

So the options are in reality in accordance with the EU treaty,our parliament vote and the judiciary, Leave with terms agreed or Leave without.

The in steps fallon and says let the people vote as well but his version has any public rejection of the terms meaning we simply stay IN instead.

Now please explain how this is democratic when it goes against all due process. Parliament have just agreed to start the process of leaving, we have not agreed to start the process all over again of whether we stay IN or OUT.

And why would May call an election ( if parliament do not agree with the agreement), we would still be leaving anyway and an early election would bring nothing to the table (except a large tory win), if anything it would be an unwelcome distraction while the business of our Leaving is then forced to be concluded without an agreement. Not sure that sort of muddled timeline of crossed swords is in anyones interest.




i prefer these Churchill words

"We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not comprised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed. And should European statesmen address us in the words which were used of old, 'Wouldest thou be spoken for to the king, or the captain of the host?', we should reply, with the Shunammite woman: 'I dwell among mine own people."

But that aside, in all seriousness, quoting someone who died over 50 years ago to try and point score an argument is rather pointless when the current surroundings are far more relevant to issues now as to circumstances observed many decades ago.
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I did not quote Churchill to 'point score' - you'll note I didn't even mention his name - but to deal with a question about why I thought as I did. Beyond that I am afraid I'd rather not have a conversation with you. Enjoy your day.
 


pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Lincoln Imp said:
I did not quote Churchill to 'point score' - you'll note I didn't even mention his name - but to deal with a question about why I thought as I did. Beyond that I am afraid I'd rather not have a conversation with you. Enjoy your day.
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You are correct you didn’t mention his name,it, but they are the words of Churchill, you obviously knew this when posting them.
Are you playing some sort of silly game when you asked alfredmizen
“what is your view of people of actually WRITE 'cringeworthy bollox' like this?”

more importantly you seem stumped with the question how could fallon be acting democratically and don’t want to play anymore, you are entitled to bow out of course but your silence on that very important matter speaks volumes though.
 


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