Cameron v Miliband v Clegg: the official Question Time match thread

BigGully · May 1, 2015

hans kraay fan club said:
None of this is, bar the child benefit and tax credits, are relevant to my example, is it?

Funny sentence to put 'none of it' then immediately accept 2 benefits out of the 4 benefits posted are relevent, of course you forgot the free school meals etc. but never mind.

Lets try this for you £137.70 per week and children access free school meals, including breakfast club if one runs, I am not saying its easy but it isnt immediately obvious that a food bank is critical for them to feed themselves.

hans kraay fan club · May 1, 2015

BigGully said:
Funny sentence to put 'none of it' then immediately accept 2 benefits out of the 4 benefits posted are relevent, of course you forgot the free school meals etc. but never mind.

Lets try this for you £137.70 per week and children access free school meals, including breakfast club if one runs, I am not saying its easy but it isnt immediately obvious that a food bank is critical for them to feed themselves.

You could word it as '2 out of the 4' you'd suggested they would be due. More accurately, I'd word it as £137 of the £550 you'd suggested. Not sure how you feel the children in my example, of a family with a sudden change in circumstances, would be eligible for free school meals, either.

Like [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION] says, from first hand experience - many of the people turning up at these banks are embarrassed and humiliated to have to be there. It is not an option people turn to lightly.

Uncle C · May 1, 2015

Herr Tubthumper said:
The reason you are receiving insults is because of your nasty and ridiculous statements. They're so ill informed they don't warrant reasoned reply.

In my book, insults are the last resort of the uneducated who cant present a reasoned argument.

Why don't you continue proving the point?

seagulls4ever · May 1, 2015

Bozza said:
Despite all the earlier criticism, it looks like the Tories played an absolute blinder with their strategy on the TV debates with last night's Question Time really shaking up prospects.

It still might not be enough for them to form the next government, but it's certainly increased their chances significantly from where we were 24 hours ago.

I don't think last night had much of an effect at all. Nor any of the debates. Generally people watched them with their own agendas, making up their minds on who won before watching.

You statement that it's significantly increased their chances of forming the next government is just wrong. In fact, from when I last checked, the odds (according to the bookies) of them forming some sort of government have stretched, compared to Labour, which have shortened: http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/next-government

People expected Miliband to do badly and Cameron to do well. But Cameron has not done as well as expected and Miliband has done better than expected. In any case, evidence from previous debates this campaign suggests these have no significant effect on voting intentions.

But the bigger issue here is that Cameron and his party have stifled the democratic process by not agreeing to the debates that all the other parties, the broadcasters and the electorate originally wanted, despite Cameron saying after the debates in 2010, “I think we will have them in every election in the future and I think that it is a really good thing for our democracy.”

Your pro-Tory bias or 'trolling' is almost as bad as your pro-Apple bias and trolling.

BigGully · May 1, 2015

hans kraay fan club said:
You could word it as '2 out of the 4' you'd suggested they would be due. More accurately, I'd word it as £137 of the £550 you'd suggested. Not sure how you feel the children in my example, of a family with a sudden change in circumstances, would be eligible for free school meals, either.

Like [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION] says, from first hand experience - many of the people turning up at these banks are embarrassed and humiliated to have to be there. It is not an option people turn to lightly.

They would access free school meals, even without initial proof of any benefit schools would support that child, if the alternative is a food bank then I cannot see any school not allowing access to FSM or a family not asking for help either.

I acknowledge the difficulties of many, I am hugely sympathetic of the homeless but I brutally believe that beyond the homeless and people with mental health issues, irrespective of their demeanour when they arrive, that dysfunctionality and not poverty is the main cause of people using food banks,

peterward · May 1, 2015

Bozza said:
Despite all the earlier criticism, it looks like the Tories played an absolute blinder with their strategy on the TV debates with last night's Question Time really shaking up prospects.

It still might not be enough for them to form the next government, but it's certainly increased their chances significantly from where we were 24 hours ago.

Is that your personal opinion or are we on the verge of an official NSC endorsement to vote for Dave... cue binfest

Bozza · May 1, 2015

seagulls4ever said:
You statement that it's significantly increased their chances of forming the next government is just wrong. In fact, from when I last checked, the odds (according to the bookies) of them forming some sort of government have stretched, compared to Labour, which have shortened: http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/next-government

My statement is based solely on the odds for the next Prime Minister where, since around 8pm last night, Cameron's odds have shortened quite dramatically whilst Miliband's have lengthened, although he is still clearly favourite as I readily acknowledged before - http://www.oddschecker.com/politics...lection/prime-minister-after-general-election

Someone is not trolling if they present different views to your own. Sorry about that, precious.

ROSM · May 1, 2015

peterward said:
Is that your personal opinion or are we on the verge of an official NSC endorsement to vote for Dave... cue binfest

Ha ha

Bozza is the new Rupert murdoch?

I see Bozza point Btw, it was in many ways easier last night but the rise of social media means that woolly statements or sliming get picked up quicker.

Everyone one expects Cameron to be a bit slimy and Milliband clumsy - that fact that it's so close with a week to go isn't ringing endorsement for the Tory plan

seagulls4ever · May 1, 2015

Bozza said:
My statement is based solely on the odds for the next Prime Minister where, since around 8pm last night, Cameron's odds have shortened quite dramatically whilst Miliband's have lengthened, although he is still clearly favourite as I readily acknowledged before - http://www.oddschecker.com/politics...lection/prime-minister-after-general-election

Someone is not trolling if they present different views to your own. Sorry about that, precious.

The odds have hardly changed at all. Last week when I last checked that link, they were both close to evens in terms of who was most likely to be next Prime Minister, with Miliband slightly ahead, as he is now.

Your statement was about a 'significant increase in chances' which is clearly not true. Some slight movement maybe, but nothing significant about it. And short-term movements don't seem to be holding in this campaign anyway. Plus, your statement was about the 'next government', so maybe you should use those odds rather than the next Prime Minister odds.

You can troll in the way you express your opinions, as you well know.

Deleted member 22389 · May 1, 2015

Not voting for Tory or Labour, but Milliband and his party would undo everything. Most of us know this is a good as it is going to get, so why make things worse.

Bozza · May 1, 2015

seagulls4ever said:
The odds have hardly changed at all. Last week when I last checked that link, they were both close to evens in terms of who was most likely to be next Prime Minister, with Miliband slightly ahead, as he is now.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Last night (not last week or some other arbitrary point in time you happen to choose) at around 8pm, Cameron's odds were significantly longer than they are now and had been only heading one way for the last 2-3 weeks. Over the last week (seemingly since you last checked) Miliband had continued to shorten and was 8/15 in places. Now that is no longer the case and although the pair are not on parity, they are much closer than they have been for a while, again possibly since you last looked.

I'll use whatever odds I like, thanks.

Stumpy Tim · May 1, 2015

Given Miliband has completely ruled out the SNP as partners, I don't see how he can become PM. In fact, I'm not sure if Cameron can either? Wouldn't be surprised to see a re-run in a few months, with Cameron remaining as PM until then

ROSM · May 1, 2015

Stumpy Tim said:
Given Miliband has completely ruled out the SNP as partners, I don't see how he can become PM. In fact, I'm not sure if Cameron can either? Wouldn't be surprised to see a re-run in a few months, with Cameron remaining as PM until then

I think it's a calculated gamble. The amount of footsoldiers labour have on the ground this time is huge and they're targeting efforts.

I think the snp factor has played this last week and also in Scotland many waverers from.Labour to snp are saying it doesn't matter which one I vote for, I will get the same government.

It may backfire, but if they do well in the marginals and avoid wipeout in Scotland it may mean that a minority government with some concessions to get lib dem etc on side will be enough. The lib dem redlines are all labour friendly policies

seagulls4ever · May 1, 2015

Bozza said:
Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Last night (not last week or some other arbitrary point in time you happen to choose) at around 8pm, Cameron's odds were significantly longer than they are now and had been only heading one way for the last 2-3 weeks. Over the last week (seemingly since you last checked) Miliband had continued to shorten and was 8/15 in places. Now that is no longer the case and although the pair are not on parity, they are much closer than they have been for a while, again possibly since you last looked.

I'll use whatever odds I like, thanks.

If you're making a point about who's most likely to form the next government I think it only right and sensible to use odds for that subject

But since you prefer to use the 'next Prime Minister odds', take a look at this link: http://www.oddschecker.com/politics...eneral-election/bet-history/ed-miliband/today

Over the past few weeks for Ed there's been both shortening and drifting of odds, mainly shortening as you state (although there's been quite a bit of movement both ways over the last week). But let's take today and the 29th as an example to see the difference QT has had. Odds for Ed have gone from 4/6 to 8/11 x2, 4/6 to ... 4/6, 8/13 to 4/7 x2, and many other similar numbers. Whilst there has been movement both ways, Ed's odds of becoming Prime Minister since the 29th have very slightly drifted overall. If you think that's significantly increased the chances of your mate Dave becoming PM then I'd suggest it is you who is being 'obtuse', or merely as I have previously suggested, demonstrating your pro-Tory bias, as you have done many times before.

KZNSeagull · May 1, 2015

I watched this for about 2 minutes last night whilst Ed was on - my wife said "Ooh, he's creepy". Hope that helps.

Don Quixote · May 1, 2015

I like Ed.

pb21 · May 1, 2015

Can personally see a Labour / Lib Dem coalition occurring...

Both parties can work together, neither crossing the others 'red lines', just depends on the Lib Dem vote...

Ernest · May 1, 2015

Shame the Tories have to do this

http://labourlist.org/2015/05/about-that-question-time-audience/

peterward · May 1, 2015

Don Quixote said:
I like Ed.

Thats more than his brother, Scotland, The Labour Kingmaker who put him in power Martin Winter and the majority of England.

So its you, Ernest, HT, his Mrs, the unions, investors in UK debt and Russel brand!

Simster · May 1, 2015

[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION], [MENTION=1104]seagulls4ever[/MENTION]

From what we can see using that daily history odds movement tracker, it seems that Milliband's chances of being PM have drifted but only ever so slightly. However, I'm not sure I believe that page. Look in the 7th (BetVictor) column: odds have gone from 8/13 to 4/6, yet the 4/6 is marked as drifting when it's clearly tightening.

Regardless, there is certainly nothing "significant" about those changes, Bozza.

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Cameron v Miliband v Clegg: the official Question Time match thread

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Stupid IDIOT

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"the man's an arse"

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