Trump..... How did it happen ??..

drew · Jan 23, 2017

alfredmizen said:
Why did you feel it necessary to mention his colour , do you think he wouldn't have been punched if he was white ?

Because I don't know his name so I described him as best I could. Don't remember too much detail from the footage so couldn't describe his face for you. Out of interest, were there any white protesters punched at that rally?

alfredmizen · Jan 23, 2017

drew said:
Because I don't know his name so I described him as best I could. Don't remember too much detail from the footage so couldn't describe his face for you. Out of interest, were there any white protesters punched at that rally?

Haven't got a clue and don't care if any white protestors were punched , so you feel it was necessary to "describe" the person who was punched , so you think it add a bit of gravitas to the story if you "describe" the person do you ? I think you're talking bollox and you've played the victim of racism card when It was nothing of the sort.

drew · Jan 23, 2017

alfredmizen said:
Haven't got a clue and don't care if any white protestors were punched , so you feel it was necessary to "describe" the person who was punched , so you think it add a bit of gravitas to the story if you "describe" the person do you ? I think you're talking bollox and you've played the victim of racism card when It was nothing of the sort.

Well Mr Bushy, Alfred or whatever name you chose to go by, when you spoke to the guy that hit him was he able to confirm to you that it was nothing to do with the colour of his skin and that had he been close enough to any other protester of whatever race he would have decked them too. Personally, I don't know if he only hit him because he was black or just because he was opposed to Trump. I just described the victim as best I could. You've attempted to turn it into a race issue but then you do have form for that.

brighton fella · Jan 23, 2017

drew said:
Well Mr Bushy, Alfred or whatever name you chose to go by, when you spoke to the guy that hit him was he able to confirm to you that it was nothing to do with the colour of his skin and that had he been close enough to any other protester of whatever race he would have decked them too. Personally, I don't know if he only hit him because he was black or just because he was opposed to Trump. I just described the victim as best I could. You've attempted to turn it into a race issue but then you do have form for that.

You find it necessary to describe someone by the colour of their skin.and then call someone out for turning it in to a race issue :nono:

BadFish · Jan 23, 2017

e77 said:
I just think it is a huge pity that there are a lot of people on the centre (or centre-left or centre-right) aren't getting a look in at the moment due to noise from the right and rigid ideology from the left.

It is quite possibly (and indeed normal) to not campaign for LGBT rights but not begrudge them getting them.

There is nothing racist about wanting a functional immigration system but seeing some of the benefits of immigration.

Wanting to see fiscal responsibility but wanting y people to have a safety net is most people's default position.

Problem is they aren't the sort to shout loudly and nuanced positions don't fit on a banner.

One day someone will see sense a try to represent this silent majority (or at least very large grouping)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Leaders often represent the middle ground to some degree but seem to then lose the more extreme but powerful factions in their parties. Malcom Trunbull is suffering with this phenomemon to some degree is Australia at the moment.

BadFish · Jan 23, 2017

Two Professors said:
Well he's hit the ground running-just withdrawn from the Trans Pacific Partnership by Executive Order!

If i remember rightly this agreement was heavily biased towards the US and had some very suspect aspects to it. So that is one up for me. However he has stopped any foreign funding for abortions which one could suggest is the thin end of the wedge so One - one

drew · Jan 23, 2017

brighton fella said:
You find it necessary to describe someone by the colour of their skin.and then call someone out for turning it in to a race issue

brighton fella · Jan 23, 2017

drew said:

Exactly.

Any progress regarding evidence that Diane Abbott and Emily Thornberry are for the white working classes ? .

drew · Jan 24, 2017

brighton fella said:
Exactly.

Any progress regarding evidence that Diane Abbott and Emily Thornberry are for the white working classes ? .

What's that got to do with me?

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jan 24, 2017

WonderingSoton said:
Last summer I was invited to an American wedding. One side of the family were very religious, conservative south central types (~Kentucky/Tennessee). The other family were massive east coast city liberals, atheist feminists (~Boston). I know it sounds cliched, and it felt it, but it was true.

I met more Americans during this week than during the rest of my life. And this week I spent with them was basically one long argument, especially when a bottle of beer was consumed. I could not believe how opposed to each other they were.

The liberals for their part went way over the top getting offended and throwing insults and labels like racist, misogynist, homophobic, you name it at the conservatives. The conservatives for their part went way over the top in response to the political correctness the liberals were preaching.

Both sides knew exactly what buttons to press with the other. For every gender neutral toilet and safe space the liberals mentioned, the conservatives would talk about guns and immigration control. Both knew how to get the other foaming at the mouth.

There was little room for sensible calm discussion, things went from nought to sixty in no time. At times I found it fascinating, but mostly I found it unbelievably awkward.

Whilst the conservatives weren't massive on Trump as their candidate, but he was 'theirs'. They sure as hell weren't going to support Hilary. Happy to ignore Trump's crazy outbursts and oafishness, and mostly they loved how much he upset liberals. Hilary didn't respect America due to the email issues, and she was too close to the 'same old same old' establishment that was doing nothing for 'their' America.

Whilst the liberals seemed happy to ignore Hilary's dubious funding, past baggage etc. She was a democrat, a woman, and was the continuation of Obama who was their hero, breaking through barriers. She would continue the screwing into the ground of the GOP and their perceived racist white male America.

No punches were thrown during this week, but it was bloody close to it on several occasions.

One thing is for sure, if those two groups can be representative of America as a whole, it's one incredibly fractured and broken country, both camps utterly intolerant of the other.

However then we can look at ourselves and the lead up to and fall out from Brexit, as well as the various issues of keeping the United Kingdom together, and see that we're far from a united grown up and cohesive country ourselves. Maybe (as with many other ways) everything is slightly bigger in America and in Blighty we're a little less extreme and more reserved.

Superb post. Many years ago I was at a dinner in a private house full of metropolitan democrats (in New Joizy). They were all riffing off each other. Yadda Yadda. I am a reliable and prolific gobshite, but I literally said nothing the whole meal because it was wall to wall yadda. I could not get a word in. I know plenty of English right and left wingers, but the ones I would give time to would give plenty of time to the others (albeit they may invoke pudenda and other random anatomical insults to pass the time, as we do). Thank goodness for the English. We know how to accomodate a concensus, even if it chafed during the process of reaching it - and yes I'm still a tad sore over Brexit, but so be it.

My rule is this. I ask myself: what is my most cherished belief? 'Could it be bollocks?'. Very often I think, guess what, it is a bit flimsy . . . maybe . . .

And on that note, Come on Palace, give us a goal!

(not really . . . I draw the line at Palarse and Trump and Putin and Mugabe and (despite theire total global irrelevance) May, Corbyn, that UKIP leader scouser cock, bloody Boris, and pretty much all the other career polly tit ians who have nothing to say).

Better get to be now....

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 24, 2017

RexCathedra said:
Libertarians aren't known for their support for a safety net.

Not true.

They are against middle class welfare, they are not against helping the poor when they need it.

They would prefer a system in society where private charities played a far bigger role in assisting the poor and that the welfare state was reduced to be replaced with more programs promoting community minded solutions.

brighton fella · Jan 24, 2017

drew said:
What's that got to do with me?

Not a lot, thought as you had plenty to say about it you could find me some proof, obviously not.

RexCathedra · Jan 24, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
Not true.

They are against middle class welfare, they are not against helping the poor when they need it.

They would prefer a system in society where private charities played a far bigger role in assisting the poor and that the welfare state was reduced to be replaced with more programs promoting community minded solutions.

We're almost two centuries into the industrial age -- perhaps actually out of it.
When during that period has this approac ever worked? Why would it suddenly start working now?

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 24, 2017

RexCathedra said:
We're almost two centuries into the industrial age -- perhaps actually out of it.
When during that period has this approac ever worked? Why would it suddenly start working now?

It worked a hell of a lot.

It wasn't that long back when communities always helped each other out. How do you think people survived the Great Depressions?

The thought process is to counteract the nanny state mentality and get people back into the mind set of giving a shit about their local communities rather than letting the Government rule over them and be slaves to that system because of having to rely on them for everything.

How many people growing up still remember ducking around to the neighbours for a cup or sugar or milk?

Tax people less, reward them with incentives to invest some of that extra disposable income back into the community and all of a sudden there's more jobs and more support networks available that are community based.

So.CalGull · Jan 24, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
It worked a hell of a lot.

It wasn't that long back when communities always helped each other out. How do you think people survived the Great Depressions?

The thought process is to counteract the nanny state mentality and get people back into the mind set of giving a shit about their local communities rather than letting the Government rule over them and be slaves to that system because of having to rely on them for everything.

How many people growing up still remember ducking around to the neighbours for a cup or sugar or milk?

Tax people less, reward them with incentives to invest some of that extra disposable income back into the community and all of a sudden there's more jobs and more support networks available that are community based.

But that is happening, I leave my kids to be picked up by my neighbour who oversees their homework, all the while I am at the fields setting up the pitch for football/soccer practice, another parent picks up half the team while the other parents go get snacks and drinks, we all get together and then four different age groups are practicing while the parents are chatting, networking and moving forward.

We have had numerous local businesses and sponsors coming together based purely upon parents hanging out and sharing the love. We now live in a time when you do not need to "duck into peoples house for sugar" the war has long passed, we are not in a great depression, have not been for years, and to compare very harsh times with todays comforts is not comparable. One parent has employed five people from connections made through our football club. If that is not the community coming together, then what is?

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 24, 2017

So.CalGull said:
But that is happening, I leave my kids to be picked up by my neighbour who oversees their homework, all the while I am at the fields setting up the pitch for football/soccer practice, another parent picks up half the team while the other parents go get snacks and drinks, we all get together and then four different age groups are practicing while the parents are chatting, networking and moving forward.

And yet most people these days wouldn't know the neighbour that's 3 houses down the street.

Arguing that community is still what it used to be is just being disingenuous. Do you still leave all your doors open at night like people used to in these communities because they had a far greater trust for people? Not many people do. The trust isn't there.

What you're talking about is the platform the Libertarian Party wants to promote. Greater community responsibility and cohesion and less reliance on Government.

We have had numerous local businesses and sponsors coming together based purely upon parents hanging out and sharing the love. We now live in a time when you do not need to "duck into peoples house for sugar" the war has long passed, we are not in a great depression, have not been for years, and to compare very harsh times with todays comforts is not comparable. One parent has employed five people from connections made through our football club. If that is not the community coming together, then what is?

Under Obama the amount of people on food stamps jumped a ridiculous amount totalling in the millions. Maybe to you it doesn't feel like that but to 13 million + Americans it probably does.

For your information, I showed this thread to a Trump voting, staunch Conservative who lives in the area of the world you hate with a passion...guess what, he felt that the extreme views you show are radically inconsistent and based purely on reasons of argument and lacking in understanding of the situation and the actual goings on in a society thousands for miles from where you are.

My views aren't extreme. The extreme views come from the Liberals and Alt right.

I dislike California because it's home to the worst kind of hypocritical US liberal voice out there.

I much preferred travelling through the likes of Wyoming and Montana.

My views actually mirror closely my friends wife, I guess you could say she's influenced my thought process somewhat. She really doesn't have that high opinion of white liberal Californians views of the country. She thinks they are completely detached from the reality of the US for other people in the country.

The fact you had Californians suggesting cessation from the Union because of Trump shows how backwards that state can be as well.

BadFish · Jan 24, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
And yet most people these days wouldn't know the neighbour that's 3 houses down the street.

Arguing that community is still what it used to be is just being disingenuous. Do you still leave all your doors open at night like people used to in these communities because they had a far greater trust for people? Not many people do. The trust isn't there.

What you're talking about is the platform the Libertarian Party wants to promote. Greater community responsibility and cohesion and less reliance on Government.

Under Obama the amount of people on food stamps jumped a ridiculous amount totalling in the millions. Maybe to you it doesn't feel like that but to 13 million + Americans it probably does.

My views aren't extreme. The extreme views come from the Liberals and Alt right.

I dislike California because it's home to the worst kind of hypocritical US liberal voice out there.

I much preferred travelling through the likes of Wyoming and Montana.

My views actually mirror closely my friends wife, I guess you could say she's influenced my thought process somewhat. She really doesn't have that high opinion of white liberal Californians views of the country. She thinks they are completely detached from the reality of the US for other people in the country.

you dislike a place beacause some of the people that live there have different views to you? Or is it that you assume that everyone has a collective homogenised view on the world.

The fact you had Californians suggesting cessation from the Union because of Trump shows how backwards that state can be as well.

You might need to find a new football team to support!!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...eakaway-nation-peoples-republic-brighton-hove

Quite apart from that have you ever been to Brighton? If you hate California because of some of their viewpoints, my guess is you would absolutley despise Brighton

A little further reading for you:

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/uk/brighton-anything-goes-at-this-liberal-enclave-2317532.html

if you ever get to read the original article where Steven Wells crefers to crusty-wusty, hippy-dippy, ****-hatted, ning-nang-nongers you should, its a hoot.

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 24, 2017

BadFish said:
you dislike a place beacause some of the people that live there have different views to you? Or is it that you assume that everyone has a collective homogenised view on the world.

I dislike it because of the reasons I stated. I find the media bias out of there and NY pathetic.

Added I'm a life long Celtics fan. So naturally I hate the purple and yellow shite from Los Angeles.

Nobody seems to get all antsy when people lay into Croydon on here. It's ok not to like something.

You might need to find a new football team to support!!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...eakaway-nation-peoples-republic-brighton-hove

Quite apart from that have you ever been to Brighton? If you hate California because of some of their viewpoints, my guess is you would absolutley despise Brighton

Brighton is no Los Angeles. The British left are nothing like the US liberals.

BadFish · Jan 24, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
I dislike it because of the reasons I stated. I find the media bias out of there and NY pathetic.

Added I'm a life long Celtics fan. So naturally I hate the purple and yellow shite from Los Angeles.

Nobody seems to get all antsy when people lay into Croydon on here. It's ok not to like something.

Brighton is no Los Angeles. The British left are nothing like the US liberals.

I will assume from this comment that you haven't been. trust me though from your posts on this board and, your view of places based on genralised and homogenised views, your adoption of Brighton as your football team and by extension your connection with the city is a strange one. Luckily though we are painfully liberal and welcome all comers, except for those of us that aren't and don't of course.

Tyrone Biggums · Jan 24, 2017

BadFish said:
I will assume from this comment that you haven't been. trust me though from your posts on this board and, your view of places based on genralised and homogenised views, your adoption of Brighton as your football team and by extension your connection with the city is a strange one. Luckily though we are painfully liberal and welcome all comers, except for those of us that aren't and don't of course.

You know what they say about assuming.

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