Official Running Thread

Greg Bobkin · Jun 27, 2016

knocky1 said:
Heavy legs from Wednesday's Relay. Decided to follow [MENTION=26634]Simgull[/MENTION] round Hove Parkrun knowing it was above my pace but wanting to see what would happen. Decreasing mile splits and nothing at the end was the answer as he sprinted away. 20:54 and well behind simgull. Happy with that little experiment.
2 and a half weeks to the Phoenix 10k. So a heavy 10 days training planned before a week tapering. Still aiming at 43:00.

Simgull said:
Official time 20:32 - seemed generous to me- Garmin said 20:48 although I did not have satellites located from the start and not sure what effect this has. How far behind me were you and do you agree with your official timing?

You two are putting me to shame. My pb, back in 200? was 20:54, and I haven't got near it since...

Swerved PP on Saturday at the last minute due to a kids' party scheduling clash, but went out yesterday morning: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/

I need to get some races entered other than Beachy Head – preferably ones that are nearby and not on a Sunday. Any ideas?

knocky1 · Jun 27, 2016

Greg Bobkin said:
You two are putting me to shame. My pb, back in 200? was 20:54, and I haven't got near it since...

Swerved PP on Saturday at the last minute due to a kids' party scheduling clash, but went out yesterday morning: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/

I need to get some races entered other than Beachy Head – preferably ones that are nearby and not on a Sunday. Any ideas?

Mine is a current pb. 2009 was my Parkrun PB and 1995 my pb. I have to change the goal posts or I would give up.
I reckon you can get a lifetime 5k pb this summer.

dazzer6666 · Jun 27, 2016

Greg Bobkin said:
You two are putting me to shame. My pb, back in 200? was 20:54, and I haven't got near it since...

Swerved PP on Saturday at the last minute due to a kids' party scheduling clash, but went out yesterday morning: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/

I need to get some races entered other than Beachy Head – preferably ones that are nearby and not on a Sunday. Any ideas?

Have a look at Sussex Trail Events website - races are usually on Saturdays. The Lunar-Tic in July is brilliant fun (Shoreham), and they have just opened the 'mouth to mouth' for entries (Adur to Arun via the SDW). Cracking low-key friendly events.

Going to start working on speed now I've got the 100 out of the way as not done any faster sessions for ages, apart from the Downslink not planning anything above marathon distance (aiming to lower marathon PB before I get too old to be able to - sometime in the winter hopefully) so will join you on a parkrun PB quest over the next few months.......[emoji3]
[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] is going great guns, clearly on a mission. Wonder what it is [emoji849]

Greg Bobkin · Jun 27, 2016

dazzer6666 said:
Have a look at Sussex Trail Events website - races are usually on Saturdays. The Lunar-Tic in July is brilliant fun (Shoreham), and they have just opened the 'mouth to mouth' for entries (Adur to Arun via the SDW). Cracking low-key friendly events.

Going to start working on speed now I've got the 100 out of the way as not done any faster sessions for ages, apart from the Downslink not planning anything above marathon distance (aiming to lower marathon PB before I get too old to be able to - sometime in the winter hopefully) so will join you on a parkrun PB quest over the next few months.......[emoji3]
[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] is going great guns, clearly on a mission. Wonder what it is [emoji849]

I was bang up for Lunar-Tic (on my doorstep, looks like a lot of fun), but Mrs B is out all day and evening so that's that for this year!

Thanks for the tips for the other races – boys' football makes Sundays tricky, but then I'm also on a mission to reach 250 parkruns by March 2018. Can't have it all, I guess...

Charlies Shinpad · Jun 27, 2016

Just wondering who was the fellow Albion Fan I passed yesterday doing the North Devon Marathon ??
I was just doing the half and scared the crap out of him when I slapped him on the back and shouted " Come on the Albion "

Bozza · Jun 27, 2016

knocky1 said:
Impressive running by [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] at the moment. Going from strength to strength. 38+ miles and 6 hours running in a week. Maybe he's planning an assault on the SDW 100.

dazzer6666 said:
[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] is going great guns, clearly on a mission. Wonder what it is [emoji849]

I'm simply trying to get back into some sort of shape. And failing.

As I spend all day dossing around at home I figured more than ever before I have no excuse not to get out for a bit ever day, either on foot or on my mountain bike.

I'm running through sheer laziness, of sorts. When I injured my foot a few weeks ago I took to my bike and noticed how much longer I have to ride in order to burn the same number of calories as running. So I'm largely running as it takes up less time!

dazzer6666 · Jun 27, 2016

Bozza said:
I'm simply trying to get back into some sort of shape. And failing.

As I spend all day dossing around at home I figured more than ever before I have no excuse not to get out for a bit ever day, either on foot or on my mountain bike.

I'm running through sheer laziness, of sorts. When I injured my foot a few weeks ago I took to my bike and noticed how much longer I have to ride in order to burn the same number of calories as running. So I'm largely running as it takes up less time!

Doubt you're failing....absolute worst case you'll still be getting stronger and building aerobic endurance. Are you mixing the training up ? If you've got the luxury of time, play around with your sessions - intervals, hill intervals etc. It's the hard stuff that really makes the difference [emoji3]

Agree entirely re cycling - ratio seems about 3-1 even compared with easy running and 'steady' cycling.

Bozza · Jun 27, 2016

dazzer6666 said:
Doubt you're failing....absolute worst case you'll still be getting stronger and building aerobic endurance. Are you mixing the training up ? If you've got the luxury of time, play around with your sessions - intervals, hill intervals etc. It's the hard stuff that really makes the difference [emoji3]

Agree entirely re cycling - ratio seems about 3-1 even compared with easy running and 'steady' cycling.

In terms of my running ability, I'm sure I'm improving, although I won't really know until I start being a bit more sensible, having a bit of rest and trying to do see if I actually have any (relative) speed. In terms of weight loss - not so much, I think. Football = booze and crisps etc.

I do mix it up a bit, largely to avoid route boredom. The week before last I did quite a bit of hills including hill repeats, and I quite often head up to Cissbury etc, as I did earlier today in fact.

I've not really ever done intervals, other than one run where I did alternate easy mile, harder mile, easy mile etc. I must admit, given some of the sessions I see other people doing, I wonder how they control/measure them. From having a look, my Forerunner 235 doesn't seem to have the flexibility to be able to measure me, say, doing a hard half mile and then a 30 second 'rest' and repeat etc.

knocky1 · Jun 27, 2016

Bozza said:
I've not really ever done intervals, other than one run where I did alternate easy mile, harder mile, easy mile etc. I must admit, given some of the sessions I see other people doing, I wonder how they control/measure them. From having a look, my Forerunner 235 doesn't seem to have the flexibility to be able to measure me, say, doing a hard half mile and then a 30 second 'rest' and repeat etc.

You are mixing training out on the Downs. For intervals I wear a watch for timing recovery and the Garmin for each interval turning it on and off each time.

dazzer6666 · Jun 27, 2016

Bozza said:
In terms of my running ability, I'm sure I'm improving, although I won't really know until I start being a bit more sensible, having a bit of rest and trying to do see if I actually have any (relative) speed. In terms of weight loss - not so much, I think. Football = booze and crisps etc.

I do mix it up a bit, largely to avoid route boredom. The week before last I did quite a bit of hills including hill repeats, and I quite often head up to Cissbury etc, as I did earlier today in fact.

I've not really ever done intervals, other than one run where I did alternate easy mile, harder mile, easy mile etc. I must admit, given some of the sessions I see other people doing, I wonder how they control/measure them. From having a look, my Forerunner 235 doesn't seem to have the flexibility to be able to measure me, say, doing a hard half mile and then a 30 second 'rest' and repeat etc.

Don't worry about your garmin, do intervals by time or distance rather than trying to watch the pace, and judge by effort. No need to be scientific.....learn to base it on your effort level

V easy - gentle jog - recovery runs, v long runs
Easy/recovery - running, but able to hold a conversation - LSR pace
Steady - can speak in short sentences - mara/half mara pace
Tempo - not able to manage more than a few words - 5-10k
Threshold - hurts, could mutter a word or two but wouldn't want to - .5-1.5 mile intervals
All out - only capable of gasping single swear words - short intervals up to .5 mile

Bozza · Jun 27, 2016

dazzer6666 said:
Don't worry about your garmin, do intervals by time or distance rather than trying to watch the pace, and judge by effort. No need to be scientific.....learn to base it on your effort level

V easy - gentle jog - recovery runs, v long runs
Easy/recovery - running, but able to hold a conversation - LSR pace
Steady - can speak in short sentences - mara/half mara pace
Tempo - not able to manage more than a few words - 5-10k
Threshold - hurts, could mutter a word or two but wouldn't want to - .5-1.5 mile intervals
All out - only capable of gasping single swear words - short intervals up to .5 mile

Thanks - my Garmin does give me live 'zones' when I'm running based on my heart rate. I've not used them yet, other than taking a peek at the end of my runs, but there are 5 with the 5th being threshold and where I naturally seem to spend most of my time!

I guess I could try and use them, although I have recently slowed myself down by trying to judge my pace on my breathing, similar to what you've said there. If my breathing starts to get a bit laboured, I slow down a bit and try and keep myself more comfortable.

I really struggled heading up to Cissbury today and decided to have tomorrow as a rest day and get out on my bike for a change, but I popped into Run in West Worthing and have some new Brooks GTS16s which feel lovely and I know I'll not be able to resist giving them a spin tomorrow now!

dazzer6666 · Jun 27, 2016

Bozza said:
Thanks - my Garmin does give me live 'zones' when I'm running based on my heart rate. I've not used them yet, other than taking a peek at the end of my runs, but there are 5 with the 5th being threshold and where I naturally seem to spend most of my time!

I guess I could try and use them, although I have recently slowed myself down by trying to judge my pace on my breathing, similar to what you've said there. If my breathing starts to get a bit laboured, I slow down a bit and try and keep myself more comfortable.

I really struggled heading up to Cissbury today and decided to have tomorrow as a rest day and get out on my bike for a change, but I popped into Run in West Worthing and have some new Brooks GTS16s which feel lovely and I know I'll not be able to resist giving them a spin tomorrow now!

If you're spending most of you runs in garmin Z5 either the input data isn't right (put a recent 5k time into your strava profIle and see what that gives you for the six zones they use) or you are trying too hard all the time......sure you know but it's critical to mix easy days in with the harder sessions

You might like to have a play around on here as well

https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/

Bozza · Jun 27, 2016

dazzer6666 said:
If you're spending most of you runs in garmin Z5 either the input data isn't right (put a recent 5k time into your strava profIle and see what that gives you for the six zones they use) or you are trying too hard all the time......sure you know but it's critical to mix easy days in with the harder sessions

You might like to have a play around on here as well

https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/

I'd not paid much attention before, but the Garmin HR-based ranges are clearly different to the Strava pace-based ranges.

dazzer6666 · Jun 27, 2016

Strava is telling you all you need to know about where to focus more attention............lots of fairly easy miles, not much at all in Z4,5& 6. These are where most of the fitness improvements will come in. I'd guess you're now quite comfy at 9 min miles, so time to get a bit less comfortable maybe [emoji3] How were your HR zones calibrated ? I think I'm a fair bit older than you, but top of Z1 would be more like 115, 2 - 130, 3 -145, 4 - 160, 5/6 up to 170

Bozza · Jun 27, 2016

dazzer6666 said:
Strava is telling you all you need to know about where to focus more attention.......

That was my run today, my 23rd day in a row of running and my legs felt largely f*cked before I even went out. I put minimum effort in today!

dazzer6666 · Jun 27, 2016

Bozza said:
That was my run today, my 23rd day in a row of running and my legs felt largely f*cked before I even went out. I put minimum effort in today!

Fair enough (ignoring the concept and importance of rest days [emoji3])..............Still an interesting comparison between HR and pacing zones between programs.

Bozza · Jun 27, 2016

dazzer6666 said:
Fair enough (ignoring the concept and importance of rest days [emoji3])..............Still an interesting comparison between HR and pacing zones between programs.

Yep. As I say, all I'm doing at the moment is trying to get out every day with the main aim of shifting some timber again.

My comfortable 'cruising' speed this time last year was around 8min/miles. If I just run now without thinking I seem to be at about 8:20/miles but, because I'm not giving my legs time to rest and recover, I don't think I'd have much endurance at that pace right now, so I'm forcing myself to slow down intentionally.

Once I'm c20lbs lighter I'll think about speed and the like. Although, having lost that weight I should be a fair bit quicker anyway.

dazzer6666 · Jun 27, 2016

Bozza said:
Yep. As I say, all I'm doing at the moment is trying to get out every day with the main aim of shifting some timber again.

My comfortable 'cruising' speed this time last year was around 8min/miles. If I just run now without thinking I seem to be at about 8:20/miles but, because I'm not giving my legs time to rest and recover, I don't think I'd have much endurance at that pace right now, so I'm forcing myself to slow down intentionally.

Once I'm c20lbs lighter I'll think about speed and the like. Although, having lost that weight I should be a fair bit quicker anyway.

Same here......got to make a concerted effort to get at least 5kg off, if not more. Running 60mpw didn't do it so will have to be some intake management !

5 seconds per pound per mile over marathon distance apparently........

knocky1 · Jun 29, 2016

dazzer6666 said:
Same here......got to make a concerted effort to get at least 5kg off, if not more. Running 60mpw didn't do it so will have to be some intake management !

5 seconds per pound per mile over marathon distance apparently........

Are you on for the Phoenix 10k? I'd like to have a go at you before you lose 5kg. May get within a minute of you.
The Dazzer/Bozza running zones debate is interesting. Marathon training with no speed work produces my best 5k times all year. This is 90% 9:00 pace and 30-50 miles a week.
This month I have trained at either 10k or steady pace (6:45 to 7:00 or 8:00 to 8:20) for 6-20 miles a week. This is a big pace increase and my legs have reached a point where they are too knackered to run above 10k pace. Hit a training wall but not overtraining. No gain without pain.
2 days to go and a slight taper sets in (mixing shorter distances, shorter faster bursts, holding back on Parkrun and easy 9:30 runs). What I'm looking forward to is what this will produce at the Phoenix.

Then it's down to the real business of tackling the 5k

Garry Nelson's teacher · Jun 29, 2016

knocky1 said:
Are you on for the Phoenix 10k? I'd like to have a go at you before you lose 5kg. May get within a minute of you.
The Dazzer/Bozza running zones debate is interesting. Marathon training with no speed work produces my best 5k times all year. This is 90% 9:00 pace and 30-50 miles a week.
This month I have trained at either 10k or steady pace (6:45 to 7:00 or 8:00 to 8:20) for 6-20 miles a week. This is a big pace increase and my legs have reached a point where they are too knackered to run above 10k pace. Hit a training wall but not overtraining. No gain without pain.
2 days to go and a slight taper sets in (mixing shorter distances, shorter faster bursts, holding back on Parkrun and easy 9:30 runs). What I'm looking forward to is what this will produce at the Phoenix.

Then it's down to the real business of tackling the 5k

Have you got a target time for the Phoenix? I was hoping for a 43ish but unless I get in some serious training in during the next 2 weeks it's looking more like 45ish. I can always fall back on the AG to cheer me up but I'd like to do a decent time and even get close to some of the other NSC whippets. I plan to the 2 Parkruns between now and the 10K and I'd do those flat-out if only for morale purposes (I'm not very strategic).

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