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A point ahead or a game in hand ?

which is preferable ?

  • One point ahead

    Votes: 56 60.2%
  • A game in hand

    Votes: 37 39.8%

  • Total voters
    93


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
To put it another way...

Would you rather have a) 8 games to get 14 points (hypothetically) required for promotion, or b) 7 games to get 13?

Option a) for me please!!
Exactly.

If teams were averaging about a point a game, then it would be too tough to call.

The only valid reason for choosing 1 point is the point [MENTION=22902]happygull[/MENTION] made - if 9 games is just too many for a team to manage in the time left. But after a two week break, I don't think it is.
 


Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Well you can't, because points aren't on offer. 1 point is all you've been offered.

We haven't been offered the point, we already HAVE it, Boro do not.

The poll simply refers to the scenario the OP offered which is between us and Boro. Other teams don't come into the scenario in this thread.
Hotchilidog is right.

That's why I mentioned the Charlton v Boro game as nothing is guaranteed in this division.

It's a choice of what position would you rather be in today? Ours or Boro's.
 




Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
The poll simply refers to the scenario the OP offered which is between us and Boro. Other teams don't come into the scenario in this thread.
That's incorrect. The OP said "Would you rather be one point ahead like us, or have a game in hand like Boro ?" That doesn't mean 'ignore the fact that we're also competing with Burnley and Hull for a top two spot, it just means would you like 8 games to go, or 9 games to go and need an extra point.

Not that it matters, note that he said 'like us' or 'like boro', not 'be us' or 'be boro'.

Hotchilidog is right.
He's not, although it's hardly surprising you'd think he is since you're one of the ones who said they'd take the point.

That's why I mentioned the Charlton v Boro game as nothing is guaranteed in this division.
Well all know nothing is guaranteed, it goes without saying,

It's a choice of what position would you rather be in today? Ours or Boro's.
Yes, and boro are in the better position. As MJsGhost points out, say the total needed is 87 points, would you rather have 8 games to get 16 points, or 9 games to get 17 points. The latter is easier (and that's ignoring 'boro's better GD).
 






I'd take the points on the board and our current league position over a game in hand all day long. No one expected us to be where we are, but they all expected Hull, Burnley, Middlesborough and Derby to be up there. The pressure is on them, not us.

There is no coincidence that our return to form had coincided with the return of our players to fitness. We have strength in depth in our squad now. Hemed has re-found his form, and we are looking as good as our initial form, that saw us top of the table for half the season.

The one simple fact is, we are as good as any team at the top, and if we win every game from now to the end of the season, we will finish first or second place.
 


Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
That's incorrect. The OP said "Would you rather be one point ahead like us, or have a game in hand like Boro ?" That doesn't mean 'ignore the fact that we're also competing with Burnley and Hull for a top two spot, it just means would you like 8 games to go, or 9 games to go and need an extra point.

Not that it matters, note that he said 'like us' or 'like boro', not 'be us' or 'be boro'.

He's not, although it's hardly surprising you'd think he is since you're one of the ones who said they'd take the point.
.

That's how I read it. I think the OP would have included Hull and Burnley if he meant them. Obviously, if you're including all four teams, then the scenario is different.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
No one expected us to be where we are, but they all expected Hull, Burnley, Middlesborough and Derby to be up there. The pressure is on them, not us.
That is true, but it has nothing to do with the question. If we had an extra game left to play and a point less, everything you've said there would still be true.

There is no coincidence that our return to form had coincided with the return of our players to fitness. We have strength in depth in our squad now. Homed has re-found his form, and we are looking as good as our initial form that saw us top of the table for half the season.
Yep.

The one simple fact is, if we win every game from now to the end of the season, we will finish first or second place.
Same is true of 'boro.
 




Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
That's how I read it. I think the OP would have included Hull and Burnley if he meant them.
I don't understand how Hull and Burnley aren't included? We all know that this thread is about the race for top two don't we? And in that race for top two, would you rather be in 'boro's position, or our position? If we're not including Burnley and Hull, what exactly do we need points for in the first place?
 


Waynflete

Well-known member
Nov 10, 2009
1,105
This is a very entertaining thread, especially how Triggaaar is getting so furious - but I completely agree with him.

To frame the question yet another way: do you think Boro will lose their game in hand?

The only way you can justify voting for points rather than games in hand is if you think they will lose that game - or that we would lose it if the positions were reversed. Any other outcome (draw or win) and it would be better to have the game in hand.

With both sides averaging nearly 2 points per game it's not a smart bet to say that Boro will lose that game in hand.
 






Shropshire Seagull

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2004
8,477
Telford
I'm with Trig.

In defence of the "I'll take a point" folk, I think that could be attributable to our history - as someone else has already pointed out.
In relegation battles where teams are likely averaging less than a point a game, the point is clearly more valuable.
But in a promotion battle where stats prove the average is closer to 2 points per game, taking form and opposition out of the picture, the game in hand is very clearly a no-brainer!
 


ipad1977

New member
Sep 28, 2015
95
I'm with Trig.

In defence of the "I'll take a point" folk, I think that could be attributable to our history - as someone else has already pointed out.
In relegation battles where teams are likely averaging less than a point a game, the point is clearly more valuable.
But in a promotion battle where stats prove the average is closer to 2 points per game, taking form and opposition out of the picture, the game in hand is very clearly a no-brainer!

Agreed. To expand the question, if someone said to a championship team at the start of the season tipped for the promotion race, "Tell you what, I'll offer you 46 points for a long hard season of toil. Fancy it?" No one in their right mind would take that offer.

The only kind of side that MAY think about accepting that frankly $hit offer would be a team like Blackpool at the start of last season without even a full first eleven and bench and a total shambles from the non-playing side to boot, as such a total MIGHT just give them a greater chance of avoiding the drop.
 


Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
10,612
This is a very entertaining thread, especially how Triggaaar is getting so furious - but I completely agree with him.

To frame the question yet another way: do you think Boro will lose their game in hand?

The only way you can justify voting for points rather than games in hand is if you think they will lose that game - or that we would lose it if the positions were reversed. Any other outcome (draw or win) and it would be better to have the game in hand.

With both sides averaging nearly 2 points per game it's not a smart bet to say that Boro will lose that game in hand.

Or even more clearly: do you think Boro will lose at home to Reading?
Even with an awful referee and a very lacklustre second half performance, we still managed a comfortable win.

I think Boro have probably got enough to guarantee at least a point in that one.
 




Diablo

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Sep 22, 2014
4,173
lewes
Game in hand is better...simply because to win league/get promotion you need two ish points per game.. For all those saying take the point. If we`d done that all season we`d now be on 38 points,just out of the relegation Zone.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
The thread starter actually just wanted to know what percentage of posters on NSC were stupid. He was going to post the poll 'Are you stupid?' with the two options 'Yes' and 'No', but knowing that stupid people don't realise they're stupid, he disguised the question. Ingenious, but the results are quite worrying.
 


kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,085
Depends who the game in hand is against. If you said would you rather be a point ahead or a point behind with a game in hand at home to Reading, it's a different question. Given their far superior goal difference, they will only need a draw to go ahead of us in the table. How likely is it they'll lose?
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,265
The only valid reason for choosing 1 point is the point [MENTION=22902]happygull[/MENTION] made - if 9 games is just too many for a team to manage in the time left. But after a two week break, I don't think it is.

nope, the reason that a point on the board is better than a possible point, 3 or none, is a perfectly valid reason. you are way over analysing the original question and possible outcomes.
 




brightn'ove

cringe
Apr 12, 2011
9,136
London
The thread starter actually just wanted to know what percentage of posters on NSC were stupid. He was going to post the poll 'Are you stupid?' with the two options 'Yes' and 'No', but knowing that stupid people don't realise they're stupid, he disguised the question. Ingenious, but the results are quite worrying.

This thread has been a far better indicator of who is the most furiously pedantic poster on NSC.
 





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