[Brighton] Volunteers required

junior · Jan 18, 2019

Tim Over Whelmed said:
... and Samaritans, Hospital Volunteer Drivers, Meals on Meals, School Readers, RNLI, RSPCA, Blind Dogs, etc etc etc etc etc etc. When people is society volunteer they demonstrate the importance of this to others, they take pride in their community and it's for the betterment of everyone. Shirley nobody these days expects us to return to the days of paid parkies and the like, not going to happen becuase we all care too much about our personal taxation over the environment around us.

I'm not getting into an argument about this, because everybody is entitled to an opinion, and I'm often wrong.

But all those things you mention, RSPCA, RNLI etc, have always historically been volunteer posts. I have extensive volunteering history myself with Scouts, Army cadets and a few other things, so I'm a big advocate for volunteering in the right roles.

What I'm not a fan of is councils, government bodies and large organisations making paid employees redundant or similar, and then asking for people to come and take their places for free.

Tim Over Whelmed · Jan 18, 2019

junior said:
I'm not getting into an argument about this, because everybody is entitled to an opinion, and I'm often wrong.

But all those things you mention, RSPCA, RNLI etc, have always historically been volunteer posts. I have extensive volunteering history myself with Scouts, Army cadets and a few other things, so I'm a big advocate for volunteering in the right roles.

What I'm not a fan of is councils, government bodies and large organisations making paid employees redundant or similar, and then asking for people to come and take their places for free.

Couldn't agree with you more but this role would have been outsourced years ago, the budget clipped year after year until just grass cutting twice a year was left and that's that.

There are many roles that people do that COULD be done by a paid employee, but once dropped they're unlikely to return. Hospices, for example, only get 9% of their funding from the Government, many people volunteer there also.

We have a significant problem in this country that people feel the environment is the responsibility of someone else, which is why we have so much vandalism, litter and mindless acts which, whilst committed by the minority, impact on the majority. The environment is ours and if we look after it and care for it more people will feel a part of it.

P.S. Not arguing I'm debating :kiss:

Anyhow, UTA!

pearl · Jan 18, 2019

junior said:
I'm not getting into an argument about this, because everybody is entitled to an opinion, and I'm often wrong.

But all those things you mention, RSPCA, RNLI etc, have always historically been volunteer posts. I have extensive volunteering history myself with Scouts, Army cadets and a few other things, so I'm a big advocate for volunteering in the right roles.

What I'm not a fan of is councils, government bodies and large organisations making paid employees redundant or similar, and then asking for people to come and take their places for free.

I agree with your thinking. When City Clean went on strike I was against volunteers picking up litter etc. But Parks and Gardens made staff redundant ages ago and I'm sure the council would love parks to be left overgrown and neglected so they could sell them off to developers.

jevs · Jan 18, 2019

junior said:
Did this job used to be done by a paid employee?. If so, i think it's wrong of people to volunteer to do it for free.

Unfortunately, virtually every local authority relies on volunteers to keep things looking nice. Every council has suffered massive financial cutbacks in the past 10 years so if we want to keep the gardens and parks looking good, we must ask for the public's help.

Volunteering does have many benefits. Good friendships are formed, it can get people out of the house especially if someone is feeling a bit down or lonely and you can hopefully learn something.

The days of having 400 people on Brighton Parks dept are long gone but we can still make a difference....we just need some help doing it.

Bob! · Jan 18, 2019

junior said:
Did this job used to be done by a paid employee?. If so, i think it's wrong of people to volunteer to do it for free.

Thunder Bolt said:
Yes, [MENTION=259]Jack Straw[/MENTION] said it was his job.

Local councils haven't employed lots of gardeners or professional plumbers, painters, chippies etc for a long time. They plead lack of money. People moan when the council tax goes up, so what can you do?
It's either volunteers now or let the place go to rack & ruin now.

blue-shifted said:
Well. It's not really pleading lack of money .... it is lack of money.

blue-shifted said:
Too right mate. A few less people thinking solely of themselves when walking into a polling booth would make this country a nicer place

Tory Austerity in action!

Albion my Albion · Jan 18, 2019

Jack Straw said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bop4rr6sUQo

That should be the ultimate video for when asking the question "Where are you?"

Jack Straw · Jan 19, 2019

Any takers yet?

Weststander · Jan 19, 2019

Hi [MENTION=259]Jack Straw[/MENTION], out of interest, when did the decline in numbers working for BHCC’s parks department start?

pauli cee · Jan 19, 2019

Jack Straw said:
Any takers yet?

Hoping I have 1 lined up, but not 100% yet

Saltydog · Jan 19, 2019

Would love to help but southern sail is as unreliable as southern rail.

But good luck to you and I hope there are some people with a bit of free time that they can share. I always loved arriving back in Brighton with those colourful flower beds lining the route.

Jack Straw · Jan 19, 2019

Weststander said:
Hi [MENTION=259]Jack Straw[/MENTION], out of interest, when did the decline in numbers working for BHCC’s parks department start?

Cutbacks started generally in the mid-'80s, with seasonal bedding areas being reduced in size or grassed over altogether. Staff numbers got reduced when all Council services were offered out to private companies (Compulsory Competitive Tendering or C.C.T.), and the Council had to bid for what was in effect its own work. In the late 80's, The Parks' Department won its first tranche of work which was all the schools in Brighton. In order to do so, staff numbers had to be cut as wages put your price up. If I remember correctly, the East Brighton and Patcham areas were also won by the in-house bid. At some point during this period the Council's Parks Department management split up with several staff being transferred to the Town Hall to become "The Client" of its own work.
Each time the Parks won a bid, excess staff from that area were farmed out to areas which hadn't yet gone out to contract. It ended up with enormous gangs of gardeners in some areas, and where the contracts had been one, just enough to not quite do the work required.
It all started to go really wrong and numbers really reduce when the main strip (Valley Gardens), was lost to Serco.
Moving on to 1995, the whole of the Parks Department was put in to the hands of a "Host Company", which was awarded to Ecovert (you may remember the name!), after many presentations from them and two other companies.
This was the start of a ten-year contract which was extended by two years at its completion when all Council Services came back in-house.
So, we're now in 2007 and there's been little if any recruitment of staff, so as people retired or left, only essential posts were replaced.
By this time, Brighton and Hove became a Unitary Authority, and the Brighton and Hove Parks Departments joined together as one.
There was no need to have two lots of managers, so there was a reduction initially down from twelve to eight, then down to six, then four. When I retired in 2016, there were only two managers left!
Manual staff went the same way through "Natural wastage". As Jevs mentioned earlier, the four hundred or so staff that worked Brighton Parks in the '70s have now been reduced to less than a hundred, and they now do Hove too.
Each year, the managers were asked to come up with ways to save money. Staff is always a big saver, but it came to the point when we couldn't cope with the numbers that were left.
Hence the call for volunteers.
The Government started to reduce their grants to Councils nationally and in the last five years, it has gone down to nothing and the only income the Parks get is from sports fees, leasing buildings and burials and cremations.
Any money coming in to the Council will ultimately go towards social care, mainly adult social care. This is an essential service.
Regardless of how highly we value our parks, in reality, they don't really matter to those who hold the purse strings.
The Rock Garden used to have at least five full-time staff. Now, it's just Jevs, and the Rockery is still the same size!
This is why volunteers are so important. Without these people, and perhaps even more importantly people like Jevs, who recruit and organise them, places like Preston Rockery wouldn't exist as they are today, that's a dead cert.

I may have got my years slightly wrong or not got all my facts 100%, but I've written what I remember as far as I could.

The Clamp · Jan 19, 2019

I wouldn’t worry too much about why they need volunteers, if you have the time and the inclination you should do it. I did it a couple of times but had to stop as I moved away without much notice. It was great and Jevs is a sound bloke. He taught me a lot in the short time I was there. It was a laugh and it’s a very good use of your time.
I wish I could have done more of it.

Albion Prem · Jan 19, 2019

Is it a fact that for every Volunteer a member of staff is disposed off?

Jack Straw · Jan 19, 2019

Albion Prem said:
Is it a fact that for every Volunteer a member of staff is disposed off?

Absolutely not. Volunteers are not factored in to any budgetary workings. Can you divulge where this nonsense may have come from?

jevs · Jan 20, 2019

Massive thank you to everyone who's replied. I've had an overwhelming response particularly on the Facebook groups "Brighton people" and "Brighton Past"

I have approx 25 volunteers who will help out in some capacity. I would eventually see that going down to 12 or so as some move on etc.

By having so many, it gives us chance to do many extra things to what I originally asked for....with particular regard to the Rose Garden and even the wild flower areas.

I'll keep you up dated and i will set up a facebook group for anyone who's interested in what we do.

In the meantime, massive thanks to Graeme (Jack Straw) who has inspired, encouraged and motivated me when times were very dark. Without him, we'd probably be looking at a block of flats instead of a beautiful garden.

Coffee this week uncle Jack? :bowdown:

Weststander · Jan 20, 2019

Jack Straw said:
Cutbacks started generally in the mid-'80s, with seasonal bedding areas being reduced in size or grassed over altogether. Staff numbers got reduced when all Council services were offered out to private companies (Compulsory Competitive Tendering or C.C.T.), and the Council had to bid for what was in effect its own work. In the late 80's, The Parks' Department won its first tranche of work which was all the schools in Brighton. In order to do so, staff numbers had to be cut as wages put your price up. If I remember correctly, the East Brighton and Patcham areas were also won by the in-house bid. At some point during this period the Council's Parks Department management split up with several staff being transferred to the Town Hall to become "The Client" of its own work.
Each time the Parks won a bid, excess staff from that area were farmed out to areas which hadn't yet gone out to contract. It ended up with enormous gangs of gardeners in some areas, and where the contracts had been one, just enough to not quite do the work required.
It all started to go really wrong and numbers really reduce when the main strip (Valley Gardens), was lost to Serco.
Moving on to 1995, the whole of the Parks Department was put in to the hands of a "Host Company", which was awarded to Ecovert (you may remember the name!), after many presentations from them and two other companies.
This was the start of a ten-year contract which was extended by two years at its completion when all Council Services came back in-house.
So, we're now in 2007 and there's been little if any recruitment of staff, so as people retired or left, only essential posts were replaced.
By this time, Brighton and Hove became a Unitary Authority, and the Brighton and Hove Parks Departments joined together as one.
There was no need to have two lots of managers, so there was a reduction initially down from twelve to eight, then down to six, then four. When I retired in 2016, there were only two managers left!
Manual staff went the same way through "Natural wastage". As Jevs mentioned earlier, the four hundred or so staff that worked Brighton Parks in the '70s have now been reduced to less than a hundred, and they now do Hove too.
Each year, the managers were asked to come up with ways to save money. Staff is always a big saver, but it came to the point when we couldn't cope with the numbers that were left.
Hence the call for volunteers.
The Government started to reduce their grants to Councils nationally and in the last five years, it has gone down to nothing and the only income the Parks get is from sports fees, leasing buildings and burials and cremations.
Any money coming in to the Council will ultimately go towards social care, mainly adult social care. This is an essential service.
Regardless of how highly we value our parks, in reality, they don't really matter to those who hold the purse strings.
The Rock Garden used to have at least five full-time staff. Now, it's just Jevs, and the Rockery is still the same size!
This is why volunteers are so important. Without these people, and perhaps even more importantly people like Jevs, who recruit and organise them, places like Preston Rockery wouldn't exist as they are today, that's a dead cert.

I may have got my years slightly wrong or not got all my facts 100%, but I've written what I remember as far as I could.

Cheers, so a decline in numbers over say 35 years.

As a lifelong Brightonian, I only discovered the old complex of BHCC glasshouses at Stanmer about 4 years ago. A sign of a glorious past.

Each year since I bought small native downland plants from the facility such as Viper’s Bugloss and Red Campion, until I went up there last summer and was told that it’s all been sold for developement. Shame.

The staff said the native downland plugs had been propagated by one older employee. Was it you [MENTION=259]Jack Straw[/MENTION]?

jevs · Jan 20, 2019

Weststander said:
Cheers, so a decline in numbers over say 35 years.

As a lifelong Brightonian, I only discovered the old complex of BHCC glasshouses at Stanmer about 4 years ago. A sign of a glorious past.

Each year since I bought small native downland plants from the facility such as Viper’s Bugloss and Red Campion, until I went up there last summer and was told that it’s all been sold for developement. Shame.

The staff said the native downland plugs had been propagated by one older employee. Was it you [MENTION=259]Jack Straw[/MENTION]?

The plants were propagated by a wonderful gardener called John Gapper. He's been with the parks dept since the year dot and what John doesn't know about wildflowers isn't worth knowing.

The nursery has been taken over by Plumpton College. Although some of the glasshouses will be lost, many will be retained. I think the old walled kitchen garden will be somewhat restored and a learning centre put in.

I was privileged to work at the nursery as a work experience lad from school, a trainee on the parks and as a nurseryman where I eventually took over the beautiful tropical palm house and orangery. Luckily, I saw the nursery during the "good old days" when growers were very experienced nurserymen.

Happy days

Weststander · Jan 20, 2019

jevs said:
The plants were propagated by a wonderful gardener called John Gapper. He's been with the parks dept since the year dot and what John doesn't know about wildflowers isn't worth knowing.

The nursery has been taken over by Plumpton College. Although some of the glasshouses will be lost, many will be retained. I think the old walled kitchen garden will be somewhat restored and a learning centre put in.

I was privileged to work at the nursery as a work experience lad from school, a trainee on the parks and as a nurseryman where I eventually took over the beautiful tropical palm house and orangery. Luckily, I saw the nursery during the "good old days" when growers were very experienced nurserymen.

Happy days

Cheers, lovely to know that Plumpton will do that.

John Gapper did a great job. In my own garden I do loads to encourage bees and butterflies, selecting chalk downland natives and other suitable plants. Without his supply, there are some quality online nurseries up and down the country.

Respect to you and your colleagues.

jevs · Jan 20, 2019

Weststander said:
Cheers, lovely to know that Plumpton will do that.

John Gapper did a great job. In my own garden I do loads to encourage bees and butterflies, selecting chalk downland natives and other suitable plants. Without his supply, there are some quality online nurseries up and down the country.

Respect to you and your colleagues.

I have a chalk bank in the rockery planted with native wildflowers. Please feel free to pop over and grab some seeds/plants etc

Jack Straw · Jan 20, 2019

Weststander said:
Cheers, so a decline in numbers over say 35 years.

As a lifelong Brightonian, I only discovered the old complex of BHCC glasshouses at Stanmer about 4 years ago. A sign of a glorious past.

Each year since I bought small native downland plants from the facility such as Viper’s Bugloss and Red Campion, until I went up there last summer and was told that it’s all been sold for developement. Shame.

The staff said the native downland plugs had been propagated by one older employee. Was it you [MENTION=259]Jack Straw[/MENTION]?

I would have been an older employee, but it was Johnny Gapper as Jevs has said! I'm still young at heart though!!

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