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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,595
Gods country fortnightly
Last edited:




JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
nicko31 said:
It really is looking like the government are making things up as they go along...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...gy-brexit-john-mcdonnell-nissan-a7388096.html

Our best hope is to continue to pay into the EU and hope we get single market access or we're be screwed
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Much like Remainer MP's and press then. It looks like the biggest allies the EU negotiating team will have is some of our MP's and elements in the press who continually spin negativity and expect all our cards to be laid face up pre negotiations. There is of course a legitimate role of scrutiny but all I see is political posturing and point scoring, so much for our national interest.
 






L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
JC Footy Genius said:
5 minute walk? A raft of links showing that my .."I thought it was a Remain campaign narrative, often repeated on NSC that it will be us against the rest as the mighty EU seeks to punish us to deter further splitters " .. comments were broadly accurate and not wrong as you suggested.

I can't remember any leavers saying the EU would be a pussy or roll over but many did say (including me) that they would be unlikely to be as vindictive as suggested by the Remain side/supporters.

Agree that UKIP and elements of the press have continually portrayed Brussels as the bad guys which although simplistic and overblown does perhaps reflect the underlying tension between the UK's vision of where the EU should be heading (more trade focused ,less centralisation) and how many on the continent and the Commission view the future ... ever closer political union/diminishing power of nation states/federalisation.

Btw out of the two misleading strategies suggesting the nasty EU is completely against us as a reason to leave or suggesting the EU will punish us if we do I think we both know the first was likely to be more successful. The UK population don't respond well to threats.
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Ah, but you ought to see the speed I go up Wolstenbury Hill.

The points you make are based on a misconception. Once again... I was simply referring to the pretence that the dynamics of the EU consist of the UK versus all the other 27 members, one good guy against everyone else, them on one side and us on the other. Stout Englishmen against the foreigners. It is a propaganda method as old as the hills, popular at various times in places as far apart as Bermondsey and Berlin and in this case perpetrated by certain politicians and their tame tabloids.

You say you agree with me that Brussels has been continually portrayed as the bad guys but that simply underlines your misreading of what I said. I didn't mention Brussels or the "nasty EU" in the post that kicked this conversation off. I was making a narrowly-focused point about a specific issue.
 




alfredmizen

alfredmizen

Banned
Mar 11, 2015
6,342
alfredmizen said:
You never replied to my post on the edge "sweaties at it again " thread , you posted


"Don't blame them, one little bit. They voted strongly for Remain, and don't want huge decisions about the future of their nation being taken with no regard to their wishes."

I asked if you saw the Irony in that post , do you ?
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You've still not replied [MENTION=3566]hans kraay fan club[/MENTION] , care to ?
 










hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,322
Chandlers Ford
alfredmizen said:
You've still not replied [MENTION=3566]hans kraay fan club[/MENTION] , care to ?
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alfredmizen said:
I guess not [MENTION=3566]hans kraay fan club[/MENTION] , you probably realise how silly you look .
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I had no idea you'd asked the question. First time I've looked at this thread in a while.

To answer - no, absolutely not.

For the Scots to be taken out of the EU, having themselves voted to stay in, is not at all the same as the UK being party to shaping policies from within the EU.
 


alfredmizen

alfredmizen

Banned
Mar 11, 2015
6,342
hans kraay fan club said:
I had no idea you'd asked the question. First time I've looked at this thread in a while.

To answer - no, absolutely not.

For the Scots to be taken out of the EU, having themselves voted to stay in, is not at all the same as the UK being party to shaping policies from within the EU.
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You had no idea id asked the question? Really ? course you didn't (scratches chin ostentatiously ), I only quoted you originally when I asked , quoted you again when I asked again , and quoted you twice today , as for your answer , it's bollox and you know it.
 




hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,322
Chandlers Ford
alfredmizen said:
You had no idea id asked the question? Really ? course you didn't (scratches chin ostentatiously ), I only quoted you originally when I asked , quoted you again when I asked again , and quoted you twice today , as for your answer , it's bollox and you know it.
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Don't waste your energy 'quoting' me again. I currently have 10,822 unread notifications showing, at the top of the page - which is why I turned off the notification e-mail option many years ago.

I hadn't been back on the thread in a while as it is mostly now just circular nonsense repeated over and over, by the same few posters. It's dull.
 




FatSuperman

FatSuperman

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2016
2,830
The thing that's worrying me most, is what do we do in the period between leaving the EU, and having trade agreements in place?

I'm not really concerned about the legislation for fire extinguishers (all EU countries have red extinguishers - we might go back to different colours for different types), or the legislation for the minimum cage size for battery hens - those we just keep as is until we get around to bothering with them, if at all. But I am very worried about what we 'fall back on' when we no longer have a trade agreement with every nation on the planet.

Every product or service that is imported into the UK has a customs duty associated with it (and sometimes excise duty also). The rates are set by Revenue based on the trade agreements with the relevant country you are importing from. ALL of the agreements we use are EU ones, which will cease to be relevant when we exit.

A typical trade agreement takes between 5 and 7 years to negotiate.
The EU has 400 trade negotiators that work on these
The UK has 12, maybe 20 people

Once we leave the EU, Revenue will have to set a default position on everything, whilst we work out the trade agreements. Our customs official says we have no idea what this will be, but it's prudent to expect that food tariffs will go up by 20% and other goods by 12%. I am hoping that the EU will allow us to use the current agreements and we roll off them over time, a bit like countries do when they begin the joining process.

Time will tell, but suffice to say the Devil is really in the detail once you start investigating this stuff properly.
 




GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,743
Gloucester
FatSuperman said:
The thing that's worrying me most, is what do we do in the period between leaving the EU, and having trade agreements in place?

I'm not really concerned about the legislation for fire extinguishers (all EU countries have red extinguishers - we might go back to different colours for different types), or the legislation for the minimum cage size for battery hens - those we just keep as is until we get around to bothering with them, if at all. But I am very worried about what we 'fall back on' when we no longer have a trade agreement with every nation on the planet.

Every product or service that is imported into the UK has a customs duty associated with it (and sometimes excise duty also). The rates are set by Revenue based on the trade agreements with the relevant country you are importing from. ALL of the agreements we use are EU ones, which will cease to be relevant when we exit.

A typical trade agreement takes between 5 and 7 years to negotiate.
The EU has 400 trade negotiators that work on these
The UK has 12, maybe 20 people

Once we leave the EU, Revenue will have to set a default position on everything, whilst we work out the trade agreements. Our customs official says we have no idea what this will be, but it's prudent to expect that food tariffs will go up by 20% and other goods by 12%. I am hoping that the EU will allow us to use the current agreements and we roll off them over time, a bit like countries do when they begin the joining process.

Time will tell, but suffice to say the Devil is really in the detail once you start investigating this stuff properly.
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Oh hell - five years without any imports. I doubt we'll all survive. If only project fear had played this card before the referendum I wouldn't have dared to vote Brexit!
:smile:
 


FatSuperman

FatSuperman

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2016
2,830
GT49er said:
Oh hell - five years without any imports. I doubt we'll all survive. If only project fear had played this card before the referendum I wouldn't have dared to vote Brexit!
:smile:
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Well we'll obviously still have imports, they just may be quite a bit more expensive than they currently are. Please note that I'm not ranting or trying to sow fear, I'm just talking about something that is unknown and is something to consider. All of the rhetoric you see at the moment is about the end game, the destination. However it's obvious that the journey to that point is a lot longer than the 2 and a bit years we've got, so prudent companies will be considering that journey right now.

I don't get why people are so flippant about it :$
 


hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,322
Chandlers Ford
FatSuperman said:
Well we'll obviously still have imports, they just may be quite a bit more expensive than they currently are. Please note that I'm not ranting or trying to sow fear, I'm just talking about something that is unknown and is something to consider. All of the rhetoric you see at the moment is about the end game, the destination. However it's obvious that the journey to that point is a lot longer than the 2 and a bit years we've got, so prudent companies will be considering that journey right now.

I don't get why people are so flippant about it :$
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I'm with you. It's astonishing how many people blithely just imagine it will 'all just work out'.

Cost of imports is a massive deal.

My company imports everything we sell, some from the States, but mostly from Switzerland.

The CHF rate in January was 1.48/£. For November it is 1.21.

I had a customer call me today to ask whether the price I quoted him in March, for some equipment, was still valid.

In March, it was £10,800.00 His new price is £13,223.00. The physical cost of shipping the goods has also increased 20%. Its a HUGE increase. It WILL slow down business without question, and it will cost people their jobs.

Still. We got our country back, innit.
 


GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,743
Gloucester
FatSuperman said:
Well we'll obviously still have imports, they just may be quite a bit more expensive than they currently are.
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Fair enough - that's how I see it too. To me, though, it was and is a price worth paying. Short term that is. Business being what it is, business people will find ways to improve trade, and make things work. So, long term, looking forward to the future - will be even more relaxed about it once we've activated clause 50, and the Westminster politicians (80% of them remainers, I believe?) will have less chance of overturning democracy.
 






hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,322
Chandlers Ford
GT49er said:
Fair enough - that's how I see it too. To me, though, it was and is a price worth paying. Short term that is. Business being what it is, business people will find ways to improve trade, and make things work. So, long term, looking forward to the future - will be even more relaxed about it once we've activated clause 50, and the Westminster politicians (80% of them remainers, I believe?) will have less chance of overturning democracy.
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That ignores the fact that the current high cost of imports has NOTHING to do with trading terms, of which all the EU ones are still in place. These costs are entirely due to the weak value of the £. We've got the trade tariffs still to ADD to these costs, a couple of years down the line.

Tough times ahead.
 


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