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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,048
Burgess Hill
Acker79 said:
It wouldn't be disingenuous at all.

Syria and Iraq are in the news a lot regarding refugees and ISIS. It would not be disingenuous to suggest the authors, rather than imply these two Asian countries may join the EU, are suggesting Turkey about to join is bad news because it boarders Iraq and Syria and would provide an easy access into Europe for said refugees and ISIS.
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I agree with what you say in that there is no intention to suggest Syria and Iraq are going to join the EU but the message seems to be clear in that letting Turkey in means the borders of the EU are now right next to those countries which we know are areas occupied by Isis and, ergo, terrorist.

What is disingenuous is to imply that Turkey is about to join the EU, which the are clearly not. That is a lie and so is the £350m per week figure. However, that document is not aimed at people who might check the facts, it is aimed at people that just read it and believe it because it panders to their fears, real or perceived.
 






M

Maldini

Banned
Aug 19, 2015
927
drew said:
I agree with what you say in that there is no intention to suggest Syria and Iraq are going to join the EU but the message seems to be clear in that letting Turkey in means the borders of the EU are now right next to those countries which we know are areas occupied by Isis and, ergo, terrorist.

What is disingenuous is to imply that Turkey is about to join the EU, which the are clearly not. That is a lie and so is the £350m per week figure. However, that document is not aimed at people who might check the facts, it is aimed at people that just read it and believe it because it panders to their fears, real or perceived.
Click to expand...

People in Syria and Iraq are already in Europe.Watch the news.1 million are in Germany.More are coming to Europe.They will get passports and will be free to go where they wish.

Turkey is unique from other EU countries.They have the migrant issue to bargain with.You know that.They hold keys.

As for the £350m,should I list to host of lies from Remain?Couldn't be bothered.
 


Green Cross Code Man

Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,707
Eastbourne
Maldini said:
I can't believe I'm having to explain this.I'm referring to the Mail on Sunday who have come out in favour of Remain.Wasn't it obvious.
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No, because you linked to an article which dealt with the husband's politics and views. I didn't feel that there was any capitalisation on behalf of the paper or husband. But that's part of the value of democracy isn't it, dealing with different opinions in a mature manner.
 


Steve.S

Steve.S

Well-known member
May 11, 2012
1,833
Hastings
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
The reason why Syria and Iraq have been singled out and coloured orange is not explained. It would be disingenuous to pretend that this means that the authors are NOT implying that Syria and Iraq will soon be in the EU. And what about that ludicrous claim about how much it is costing us. And the bogus impression this is an official document. Yes, you could argue that only a cretin would fall for this sort of misleading nonsense. So why is this organisation peddaling lies, and why are you apparently defending it?
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I am not defending and one, I am still undecided. i do know that the lies are not just confined to one side, you seem quick to point out the lies on the leave, and use it to scare the undecided, makes you no different in my opinion.
Look at the leaflet it's not implying that they will join the EU, but what it is doing is highlighting the fact that they border Turkey and I would assume that they think once in Turkey and with an open border to the west, that they will come in through Turkey and then into Europe. As a undecided I can see for myself the scaremongering on both sides and think they are as bad as each other. Politicians no longer debate, they just scare people. The general election was about the SNP getting power along a Labour government. The London Mayors election was about who Khan was linked with and did we want a mayor like that. Whatever happens on Thursday, we will still have a conservative government and UKIP will have no more or less say in the running of this country as they have now. My gut feeling is that the remain will win, however if leave won the vote, I still believe that we will still be the EU, as a deal will be done that the great British people will be happy with and not doubt overwhelming vote for. The sad thing about all of this is that politics has taken a big step backwards and I wonder how much voter apathy will be around in future
 






Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,487
The Fatherland
Maldini said:
People in Syria and Iraq are already in Europe.Watch the news.1 million are in Germany.More are coming to Europe.They will get passports and will be free to go where they wish.
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Rubbish. There is no plan to give any refugees EU passports.
 








H

HOFNSKIN

Active member
Feb 12, 2012
222
"Staying in the EU was always going to be a hard sell to those of us on the left. The treatment of Greece and the threat of TTIP suggest that the European Union is little more than a neo-liberal cartel. The serious lack of accountability and the ridiculous practice of moving the whole parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg make it hard to love. Jeremy Corbyn spoke for many of us when he said he was 7.5 out of 10 in favour of remaining within the EU.

Over the past few days, as the Leave campaign has begun to bang loudly on the anti-immigrant drum, my reasons for voting remain have become crystal clear. The Brexit Brigade - economic libertarians all - have promised that Britain's exit will be no pain and all gain, with no regard of the consequences for those at the bottom of the pile if their economic wishful thinking is wrong. They have no qualms about blaming the working class for all societies ills in the same manner they have scapegoated the immigrants

I have friends on the left who have made a socialist case for voting Leave and, while I understand their arguments, I have wondered how they can share a political platform with Johnson, Gove, Patel, Farage et al. Since Thursday, however, I feel that none of us on the left can be in any doubt who will be emboldened by a victory for Leave. I have spent all my political life fighting against people like Thomas Mair, who, by shouting 'Independence for Britain' as he was arrested, clearly wanted the world to know which side he is on.

This is no longer an economic argument, of even one of national sovereignty. This is a battle for the soul of our country. If we win, we will have to work hard to address the genuine problems that mass immigration causes. We will need to build schools, hospitals and union membership. We will need to give a voice to the forgotten and the marginalised so that they can have some control over their lives and communities. And we will need to reform the EU to make it more about people and less about profits.

None of this will be possible if we vote to Leave. If the libertarians triumph, what's left of our welfare state will be sold to the highest bidder and our workplaces - the most deregulated in Europe - will be stripped of their meagre protections. The Tory Party will be reborn as shiny suited free market zealots. At the same time the forces of division will be emboldened and the lives of our fellow citizens - those who don't fit in with their warped idea of who does and who doesn't belong - will be made a misery. But if we win, then we will have momentum and the chance to utilise it while the Tories tear themselves apart over Europe.

If you are a person of the left, I urge you not to vote Leave next Thursday. If the thought of voting remain is too much to bear, I totally respect that as a principled position and ask you to consider abstaining. Better that than to have helped unleash forces that we have opposed in solidarity with one another over the past decades."
 


Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Herr Tubthumper said:
Rubbish. There is no plan to give any refugees EU passports.
Click to expand...

Well my next door neighbour,Shabeer,just recently got his British passport,entitling him to travel without let or hindrance.Do you mean to tell us the nasty Germans won't do it for their Shabeers.Are they racists?
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,487
The Fatherland
Two Professors said:
Well my next door neighbour,Shabeer,just recently got his British passport,entitling him to travel without let or hindrance.Do you mean to tell us the nasty Germans won't do it for their Shabeers.Are they racists?
Click to expand...

Refugees have been given permits to live in Germany, not passports.
 


N

Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
HOFNSKIN said:
"Staying in the EU was always going to be a hard sell to those of us on the left. The treatment of Greece and the threat of TTIP suggest that the European Union is little more than a neo-liberal cartel. The serious lack of accountability and the ridiculous practice of moving the whole parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg make it hard to love. Jeremy Corbyn spoke for many of us when he said he was 7.5 out of 10 in favour of remaining within the EU.

Over the past few days, as the Leave campaign has begun to bang loudly on the anti-immigrant drum, my reasons for voting remain have become crystal clear. The Brexit Brigade - economic libertarians all - have promised that Britain's exit will be no pain and all gain, with no regard of the consequences for those at the bottom of the pile if their economic wishful thinking is wrong. They have no qualms about blaming the working class for all societies ills in the same manner they have scapegoated the immigrants

I have friends on the left who have made a socialist case for voting Leave and, while I understand their arguments, I have wondered how they can share a political platform with Johnson, Gove, Patel, Farage et al. Since Thursday, however, I feel that none of us on the left can be in any doubt who will be emboldened by a victory for Leave. I have spent all my political life fighting against people like Thomas Mair, who, by shouting 'Independence for Britain' as he was arrested, clearly wanted the world to know which side he is on.

This is no longer an economic argument, of even one of national sovereignty. This is a battle for the soul of our country. If we win, we will have to work hard to address the genuine problems that mass immigration causes. We will need to build schools, hospitals and union membership. We will need to give a voice to the forgotten and the marginalised so that they can have some control over their lives and communities. And we will need to reform the EU to make it more about people and less about profits.

None of this will be possible if we vote to Leave. If the libertarians triumph, what's left of our welfare state will be sold to the highest bidder and our workplaces - the most deregulated in Europe - will be stripped of their meagre protections. The Tory Party will be reborn as shiny suited free market zealots. At the same time the forces of division will be emboldened and the lives of our fellow citizens - those who don't fit in with their warped idea of who does and who doesn't belong - will be made a misery. But if we win, then we will have momentum and the chance to utilise it while the Tories tear themselves apart over Europe.

If you are a person of the left, I urge you not to vote Leave next Thursday. If the thought of voting remain is too much to bear, I totally respect that as a principled position and ask you to consider abstaining. Better that than to have helped unleash forces that we have opposed in solidarity with one another over the past decades."
Click to expand...

Inspiring speech but just words. There is no evidence for these dark forces that will supposedly be unleashed. There is plenty of evidence of the neo-liberal profit machine of the EU. Quite simply this is just another attempt to cow me with fear into voting against my beliefs. Left wing and Leaver still and the more of this I read the more I look forward to Thursday.
 


GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,716
Gloucester
HOFNSKIN said:
"Staying in the EU was always going to be a hard sell to those of us on the left. The treatment of Greece and the threat of TTIP suggest that the European Union is little more than a neo-liberal cartel. The serious lack of accountability and the ridiculous practice of moving the whole parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg make it hard to love. Jeremy Corbyn spoke for many of us when he said he was 7.5 out of 10 in favour of remaining within the EU.

Over the past few days, as the Leave campaign has begun to bang loudly on the anti-immigrant drum, my reasons for voting remain have become crystal clear. The Brexit Brigade - economic libertarians all - have promised that Britain's exit will be no pain and all gain."
Click to expand...
You were doing alright up to there. However, that complete lie has made a mockery of your post.

HOFNSKIN said:
I have spent all my political life fighting against people like Thomas Mair, who, by shouting 'Independence for Britain' as he was arrested, clearly wanted the world to know which side he is on."
Click to expand...
Thomas Mair is/was mentally ill, and also possibly a right wing racist. To imply that the leave campaign is therefore all about right wing racism is nonsense, and, as has been agreed on here, and in all decent places, using the tragic event of the murder of Jo Cox to support either side of the referendum campaign is just beyond the pail. Despicable, in fact.
 




looney

looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
HOFNSKIN said:
. If we win, we will have to work hard to address the genuine problems that mass immigration causes.
Click to expand...

Among all your wind and guff I'll just pick this. This isn't possible, we already have shanty towns emerging around London. Theres no Land to build, Crime will rocket, wages will remain supressed as rents and morgages rise to removeany spare cash people have, this has already been happening. Its not going to stop with a remain vote

There will be 1 million plus turks rolling up with a cultural appetite for young girls(If anyone's come across their antics on IM over the years can testify).
 










M

Maldini

Banned
Aug 19, 2015
927
Green Cross Code Man said:
No, because you linked to an article which dealt with the husband's politics and views. I didn't feel that there was any capitalisation on behalf of the paper or husband. But that's part of the value of democracy isn't it, dealing with different opinions in a mature manner.
Click to expand...

I was referring to the Mail who are with Remain and who clearly are trying to capitalise on the husband's tweet.It's clear.
 




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