POSSIBLE National Rail strike coming up

yxee · May 13, 2015

supaseagull said:
Yes damn those blasted unions and their representation of workers rights.

If only Maggie had killed them all off then perhaps those big companies could have got away with not paying their staff the minimum wage and treating their staff fairly!

I mean what have the unions ever done for us?

Seriously some of you should listen to yourselves.

Most union officials are not in the back pocket of the left and a vast majority only want what's best for their members.

Some of you need to stop reading the right wing press and check out what a union does before blaming them for looking after their members!

I know exactly what a union does. They want what's best for their members, like you said. Where did I give you any other impression?

They want to maximise profit for their workers just like a company wants to maximise profit for its shareholders. If a company is in a position of monopoly, then it can exploit that position to maximize profits. The unions are clearly in an equivalent position since they control all the people who are immediately able to do a job, and strikes are their form of exploitation to maximise profits.

Why is one illegal and one celebrated?

Oh, and by the way, the people who lose out are the innocent rail travelers.

I have absolutely NO sympathy for these tyrants.

Lethargic · May 13, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
It really is time for technology to step in on the railways. Run the trains and underground using computers - no need for expensive drivers, and then use the savings for investing in the infrastructure.

This is happening under the banner of digital railways however don't expect to see results soon it will take years before we see any real benefit and no doubt they will cock it up and use the wrong type of electrons.
Don't know why people worry if the railways are an indicator they won't be able to organise a strike anyway.

SpidersLegs · May 13, 2015

yxee said:
I guess a lump sum and pay rises in line with inflation isn't enough.

Thank god Ed Miliband is not in charge.

Ban these labour monopolies.

What pay rise? All they offered this year was a £500 lump sum before tax & 0% pay rise. All they're asking for is a pay rise this year, not what is effectively, a pay cut. Next years deal for this year would be a start.

SpidersLegs · May 13, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
It really is time for technology to step in on the railways. Run the trains and underground using computers - no need for expensive drivers, and then use the savings for investing in the infrastructure.

Shows how little you know. Computers have been used for years in train operations, both on board trains & signalling.

yxee · May 13, 2015

SpidersLegs said:
What pay rise? All they offered this year was a £500 lump sum before tax & 0% pay rise. All they're asking for is a pay rise this year, not what is effectively, a pay cut. Next years deal for this year would be a start.

"Union bosses turned down the offer of a one-off £500 payment to staff and three years of rises in line with inflation."

SpidersLegs said:
Shows how little you know. Computers have been used for years in train operations, both on board trains & signalling.

There is a whole lot more that can be done. Once GPS is standardized then the entire signalling points idea can be replaced with a far more accurate monitoring system where trains are controlled by a centralized computer that knows where every single carriage is. But it's a long way off- half the track hasn't even been electrified yet. There is a lot of improvement that can be done.

father_and_son · May 13, 2015

SpidersLegs said:
What pay rise? All they offered this year was a £500 lump sum before tax & 0% pay rise. All they're asking for is a pay rise this year, not what is effectively, a pay cut. Next years deal for this year would be a start.

From the Metro: "Unhappy with a pay rise of £500 this year, plus rises matching inflation over the next three years, unions are planning walkouts."

Yes... that is virtually nothing this year, however, according to the print version of the Metro this morning they have had 8 times the pay increase of the average public sector worker over the past 5 years. So actually... they've not done too bad in reality. Ex-gratia payment this year and inflation for 3 more doesn't even bring them back in line with the public sector... not to mention the private sector in which huge swathes have had NOTHING for a few years now.

However, much as I think they are being greedy (performance related pay rises?) and holding the capital to ransom (most other cities have a fighting chance of managing their way through a national strike but London will be a ghost town!)... it really doesn't help that IPSA are insisting MPs get 9% back dated to the beginning of this parliament! Any MP who doesn't refuse the additional cash should be immediately ousted regardless of which side of the house they sit on.

seagull_in_malaysia · May 13, 2015

Based on the cost of season tickets you would have thought they must already be rolling in money.

Ernest · May 13, 2015

Poor old Tories, first strike in their new government and the ballot is comfortably within the new guidelines they want brought in

supaseagull · May 13, 2015

yxee said:
I know exactly what a union does. They want what's best for their members, like you said. Where did I give you any other impression?

They want to maximise profit for their workers just like a company wants to maximise profit for its shareholders. If a company is in a position of monopoly, then it can exploit that position to maximize profits. The unions are clearly in an equivalent position since they control all the people who are immediately able to do a job, and strikes are their form of exploitation to maximise profits.

Why is one illegal and one celebrated?

Oh, and by the way, the people who lose out are the innocent rail travelers.

I have absolutely NO sympathy for these tyrants.

Sorry but that's just right wing clap trap and it just not true.

Only in this country do members of the public criticise an organisation who want what's best for people. The Unions don't just represent blue collar workers, they represent mid and upper tier management staff, football players, journalists as well as the likes of emergency service staff.

Perhaps you should try working in a profession that has had below inflation pay rises for the last 6 years, or where the senior management of a company exploits staff by paying below the minimum wage, offer no benefits and allow workers to work in poor conditions and without Union representation..

Believe me, I'm no trumpet blower for the unions, but the presumption that they are all left wing loonies really is completely ridiculous.

Trade unionism is not about blocking change, it is not about preventing people making money; it is about ensuring that the people who make the money play fair by those who are essential to the process of it being made. A healthy/happy workforce is a productive one; trained, skilled and well-paid and well treated workers are more likely to stay in their jobs. Those treated badly or unfairly lower morale for all and whilst they may leave, few benefit from their departure, at least in the short-term.

Despite the above however, personally, I believe that Trade Unions should be wholly independent and should not provide backing policitical parties, in exactly the same way that I believe the media should be aswell. No one powerful group or person should be in a position to influence the political landscape of a country in the same way that Rupert Murdoch and his Empire does.

People should also have a democratic right to down tools, without fear of retribution, if they feel that their working rights are that which they consider to be grossly unfair. Without protest, we are not a free country. We are no better than an autocratic country like Russia.

So whilst you may not agree to peoples right to strike in some situations, it is a right that people are entitled to and have died in wars to protect.

Diablo · May 13, 2015

supaseagull said:
Sorry but that's just right wing clap trap and it just not true.

Only in this country do members of the public criticise an organisation who want what's best for people. The Unions don't just represent blue collar workers, they represent mid and upper tier management staff, football players, journalists as well as the likes of emergency service staff.

Perhaps you should try working in a profession that has had below inflation pay rises for the last 6 years, or where the senior management of a company exploits staff by paying below the minimum wage, offer no benefits and allow workers to work in poor conditions and without Union representation..

Believe me, I'm no trumpet blower for the unions, but the presumption that they are all left wing loonies really is completely ridiculous.

Trade unionism is not about blocking change, it is not about preventing people making money; it is about ensuring that the people who make the money play fair by those who are essential to the process of it being made. A healthy/happy workforce is a productive one; trained, skilled and well-paid and well treated workers are more likely to stay in their jobs. Those treated badly or unfairly lower morale for all and whilst they may leave, few benefit from their departure, at least in the short-term.

Despite the above however, personally, I believe that Trade Unions should be wholly independent and should not provide backing policitical parties, in exactly the same way that I believe the media should be aswell. No one powerful group or person should be in a position to influence the political landscape of a country in the same way that Rupert Murdoch and his Empire does.

People should also have a democratic right to down tools, without fear of retribution, if they feel that their working rights are that which they consider to be grossly unfair. Without protest, we are not a free country. We are no better than an autocratic country like Russia.

So whilst you may not agree to peoples right to strike in some situations, it is a right that people are entitled to and have died in wars to protect.

Are you saying the workers should be allowed to decide how much they are paid ?? .. You say protest...what they mean is f..k up the rail network and make the millions using the railways journeys hell.....Or are they thinking about protesting in their free time

yxee · May 13, 2015

supaseagull said:
Perhaps you should try working in a profession that has had below inflation pay rises for the last 6 years, or where the senior management of a company exploits staff by paying below the minimum wage, offer no benefits and allow workers to work in poor conditions and without Union representation...

I did for 4 years. You know what my solution was? Move job. That's economics working.

People should also have a democratic right to down tools, without fear of retribution, if they feel that their working rights are that which they consider to be grossly unfair.

Why? If you stop doing your job, then retribution (or as I would call it: consequences) is inevitable. What you're defending is the state intervention to protect these workers from the consequences of their refusal to work.

Ernest · May 13, 2015

One of the benefits of privatising the railway was that staff then began to know their worth, most jobs such as train drivers, signalmen , technicians etc need a long time to train so it's not like they can be sacked today and their replacements bought in over night. Why do you think drivers now earn getting on for £50k a year each ? They know their worth and make sure they get paid as such , if other workers in other industries organised themselves like the railwaymen have and they would be the same.

It is called capitalisation and I thought that was what the Tories were all in support for ?

Herr Tubthumper · May 13, 2015

yxee said:
What you're defending is the state intervention to protect these workers from the consequences of their refusal to work.

This board seems to be awash with smug cocky Tories are the mo. Let's see if there are all still smiling at your self-interest in 5 years time.

drew · May 13, 2015

supaseagull said:
Sorry but that's just right wing clap trap and it just not true.

Only in this country do members of the public criticise an organisation who want what's best for people. The Unions don't just represent blue collar workers, they represent mid and upper tier management staff, football players, journalists as well as the likes of emergency service staff.

Perhaps you should try working in a profession that has had below inflation pay rises for the last 6 years, or where the senior management of a company exploits staff by paying below the minimum wage, offer no benefits and allow workers to work in poor conditions and without Union representation..

Believe me, I'm no trumpet blower for the unions, but the presumption that they are all left wing loonies really is completely ridiculous.

Trade unionism is not about blocking change, it is not about preventing people making money; it is about ensuring that the people who make the money play fair by those who are essential to the process of it being made. A healthy/happy workforce is a productive one; trained, skilled and well-paid and well treated workers are more likely to stay in their jobs. Those treated badly or unfairly lower morale for all and whilst they may leave, few benefit from their departure, at least in the short-term.

Despite the above however, personally, I believe that Trade Unions should be wholly independent and should not provide backing policitical parties, in exactly the same way that I believe the media should be aswell. No one powerful group or person should be in a position to influence the political landscape of a country in the same way that Rupert Murdoch and his Empire does.

People should also have a democratic right to down tools, without fear of retribution, if they feel that their working rights are that which they consider to be grossly unfair. Without protest, we are not a free country. We are no better than an autocratic country like Russia.

So whilst you may not agree to peoples right to strike in some situations, it is a right that people are entitled to and have died in wars to protect.

I generally agree with most of what you say but you seem to forget that the Labour Party was born out of the Union movement. If you are going to ban unions backing Labour then perhaps businesses should not be allowed to support the Tories and to be honest, that doesn't make sense. Both sides have a vested interest in their respective parties passing the laws of the land.

With regard to the general point about the train strike. I wonder what sort of pay rises those in the city have been enjoying over the last 5 years?

skala.balasd · May 13, 2015

I'm another spamming tosser.

SpidersLegs · May 13, 2015

father_and_son said:
From the Metro: "Unhappy with a pay rise of £500 this year, plus rises matching inflation over the next three years, unions are planning walkouts."

Yes... that is virtually nothing this year, however, according to the print version of the Metro this morning they have had 8 times the pay increase of the average public sector worker over the past 5 years. So actually... they've not done too bad in reality. Ex-gratia payment this year and inflation for 3 more doesn't even bring them back in line with the public sector... not to mention the private sector in which huge swathes have had NOTHING for a few years now.

However, much as I think they are being greedy (performance related pay rises?) and holding the capital to ransom (most other cities have a fighting chance of managing their way through a national strike but London will be a ghost town!)... it really doesn't help that IPSA are insisting MPs get 9% back dated to the beginning of this parliament! Any MP who doesn't refuse the additional cash should be immediately ousted regardless of which side of the house they sit on.

Another one who believes what they read in the press! It's not a pay rise, it's a one off lump sum. How do I know? Cos I'm a member of the RMT & know exactly what was offered!

Surf's Up · May 13, 2015

Herr Tubthumper said:
This board seems to be awash with smug cocky Tories are the mo. Let's see if there are all still smiling at your self-interest in 5 years time.

You pays yer money and you makes yer choice. It could've been awash with arrogant, superior, pseudo intellectual, ideologically inflexible and equally smug Labourites (I refrain from calling them Lefties because they're not really are they?) if their party hadn't made such a gigantic cock-up of the election (and if they got that so wrong how on earth could they have been expected to govern competently?). I don't know which is worse smug Tories or smug Labour.

seagullsovergrimsby · May 13, 2015

Ernest said:
Poor old Tories, first strike in their new government and the ballot is comfortably within the new guidelines they want brought in

They'll probably change the percentages now , 90% of the membership will have to vote YES for industrial action or if it affects public services the figure rises to 98% :thumbsup:

Hampster Gull · May 13, 2015

London Irish said:
Why don't we have tighter rules for when elections of MPs are valid? Amazing how many Tories are prefectly happy to run the country on minority votes

yes, its tough as a minority, you have my sympathy

Hampster Gull · May 13, 2015

Herr Tubthumper said:
This board seems to be awash with smug cocky Tories are the mo. Let's see if there are all still smiling at your self-interest in 5 years time.

You are right on the first. I suspect you could well could well be right on the second although there seems to be a clamour on here to move further to the left. If so that might mean another 5 years

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