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[News] OT If you think we’ve got it bad, spare a thought for Zimbabwe



The Antikythera Mechanism

The oldest known computer
NSC Patron
Aug 7, 2003
7,788
Just received a link to this article from friends in Zimbabwe. Doesn’t make the headlines over here even though the country is facing total ruin with SA not far behind;

“Regardless of one's political inclination, there has to be a point where we have to be bluntly honest with ourselves and spell out things for what they are, call failure for what it is, dismal failure because this has gone on for far too long without any resolution in sight. The government insists in saying everything is ok, there is enough fuel when we have these incredibly long and winding fuel queues in almost every part of the country. Anything that can possibly go wrong has gone wrong, you name it, Cash crisis, fuel shortage crisis, no currency of our own, no foreign currency, no health care, no good governance, wanton violation and disregard of worker's rights, industry closures, no jobs as evidenced by 95 percent unemployment rate, no functional economy, just a bunch of self conceited political thieves who have resolved to loot the country down to its knees, corruption, personalising public resources until there is nothing left for national development. Why would one continue negating reality and subscribe to blind loyalty to a political cartel led by political a thieves who are deliberately impoverishing the country while enriching themselves? The reality is Zanu pf has single handedly failed this country for the past donkey years and they have now literally shut it down through corruption and gross mismanagement, without any help, yes, they are capable of this magnitude of destruction, in their perverted logic they call it ruling "kutonga". People are dying from curable ailments because our health care system is marginalised to the pavement of extinction, a death by installment through sustained neglect and lack of funding. When the political elites are ill they get treated in South Africa or anywhere outside the country and for their fuel needs they have government allocated fuel for their luxury cars and long motorcades while everyone else suffers, so they will never know or experience the general populace's reality.
Does Emmerson Mnangagwa and Constantino Chiwenga even have any plan at all for this naseous economic mess, we are simmering in? This is not time for lies and propaganda, Emmerson Mnangagwa needs to take ownership of this mess and have a state of the nation address to tell the people what his plans are, not just keep quiet and sweep the streets instead of cleaning the economy. Why did they grab power, then steal elections when they have no clue on how to effectively govern? The collective voted for a change of the political culture, their will was subverted, in return we got a full blown crisis of leadership. What is it we haven't done, we have slept in bank queues only to be limited to getting $30.00, stood in queues for cooking oil, queues for bread, some basic foodstuffs are ridiculously expensive, now we are sleeping in fuel queues instead of working, that is productivity down the toilet. Our reality is equally grim and disheartening, one can only wonder, what are they ruling when a country is this far down, free falling in to the bottomless pit? We are in for a really bad hairdo with these indifferent self serving rulers who are devoid of any empathy. The question that begs an answer is for how long are we willing to endure this suffering in silence, have we gotten accustomed to the abnormal so much that we just take it as if its normal?”
 




Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,646
West west west Sussex
If anyone here thinks 'they've got it bad' they'd better be living in Boots' doorway.
 












beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,289
what i cant comprehend is why SA is steering itself toward following the same policy. i get the political reason, wanting to right the wrongs of the past etc, but turfing the incumbent farmers off land for the sake of political expediency seems utter madness, moreso when your neighbour did the same thing for 30 years with calamitous results. "it'll be different" of course, only it wont be. spend a generation training up farmers, moving them onto acquired land, or heaven forbid just let the white farmers to get on with it until they leave anyway.
 






ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,743
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
what i cant comprehend is why SA is steering itself toward following the same policy. i get the political reason, wanting to right the wrongs of the past etc, but turfing the incumbent farmers off land for the sake of political expediency seems utter madness, moreso when your neighbour did the same thing for 30 years with calamitous results. "it'll be different" of course, only it wont be. spend a generation training up farmers, moving them onto acquired land, or heaven forbid just let the white farmers to get on with it until they leave anyway.

Zambia did it in the 1970's and Zimbabwe followed suit 30 years later. Namibia is also about to do it along with South Africa too. With regards to South Africa, I'm frankly surprised it's taken this long.

Its Africa. Its a different world. Unless you've lived there amongst it, in black Sub-Saharan Africa, not a gated community in a leafy South African suburb with golf courses and swimming pools, day in, day out and been worn down by the utter madness of the place as I did it for several years, amongst African people, you'll never be able to comprehend. Everything comes down to race, ethnicity, tribe, language etc in Africa. When you have 'haves' and 'have nots' in terms of land ownership based on the legacies of colonialism and apartheid and the subjugation of people based on race, training up farmers and thinking about the negative economic factors doesn't come into it. Nothing else matters to some.

As in Zimbabwe, the smart new land occupiers in South Africa and Namibia will just lease back their new farms to the evicted farmers and grow tobacco if the land allows, further exacerbating it all too.
 
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GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,711
Gloucester
And here's me thinking (naively) that with Mugabe out of the way, that they would get back on track.

I suppose there were danger signs when Mbeke (sp?) always protected Mugabe, at the ANC for example, when it wasn't just Zimbabweans who were expressing doubts about him.
 




WonderingSoton

New member
Dec 3, 2014
287
I cannot comment on Zimbabwe, because I don't know much about it / have no experience of the place. But SA... South Africa is fast on it's way to becoming economically enslaved to China. It's colonialism much like the past, but under a slightly different guise.

Any infrastructure built or improved in the last decade in South Africa (roads, ports, airports etc), it's expanded military, it's expanding business and tech sector - all of that paid for by / owed to China.

In the rush to be seen to build the country up and show off some improvements after the policies undertaken in recent years, they've blindly taken the money regardless of strings attached. And have ended up in another position of colonial servitude, only 'they've' (the modern day ruling class) have done it to themselves and their country this time, as opposed to having it forced upon them as in the past.

The result is that whoever is in government in SA for the next 100 years, regardless of background or political inclination, will have no choice but to dance to China's tune on any matter that concerns China.

Meanwhile the lot for the majority general population of SA, those who are not able to benefit from the above expenditure, because they don't have use for that fancy infrastructure or the skills for the fancy jobs, just gets worse and worse. Food prices already inflating and only going one way, as the supply from it's agriculture sector slowly declines.

It's a country that is going to go bang at some point, probably soon. When the vast majority of the population regardless of race and colour, realises they're all being shafted and have thrown away their independence and their fresh start. Just a matter of time.
 




Live by the sea

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2016
4,718
This is unfortunately what happens when you have not very bright people in charge allied with corruption. A warning to us here, Corbyn may not be corrupt but he sure is not very bright and neither are his close associates.
 


ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,743
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
I suppose there were danger signs when Mbeke (sp?) always protected Mugabe, at the ANC for example, when it wasn't just Zimbabweans who were expressing doubts about him.

Mbeki did, as did Jacob Zuma. Because of its opposition to Mugabe and that of its then, pro-western, President Kharma, Botswana was the only Southern African country that Zuma in his presidency never visited on an official state visit for example.

Outside of Africa, Mugabe also had useful friends in Moscow, Tehran, Beijing and elsewhere in Asia to prop him up.
 


ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,743
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
I cannot comment on Zimbabwe, because I don't know much about it / have no experience of the place. But SA... South Africa is fast on it's way to becoming economically enslaved to China. It's colonialism much like the past, but under a slightly different guise.

Any infrastructure built or improved in the last decade in South Africa (roads, ports, airports etc), it's expanded military, it's expanding business and tech sector - all of that paid for by / owed to China.

In the rush to be seen to build the country up and show off some improvements after the policies undertaken in recent years, they've blindly taken the money regardless of strings attached. And have ended up in another position of colonial servitude, only 'they've' (the modern day ruling class) have done it to themselves and their country this time, as opposed to having it forced upon them as in the past.

The result is that whoever is in government in SA for the next 100 years, regardless of background or political inclination, will have no choice but to dance to China's tune on any matter that concerns China.

Meanwhile the lot for the majority general population of SA, those who are not able to benefit from the above expenditure, because they don't have use for that fancy infrastructure or the skills for the fancy jobs, just gets worse and worse. Food prices already inflating and only going one way, as the supply from it's agriculture sector slowly declines.

It's a country that is going to go bang at some point, probably soon. When the vast majority of the population regardless of race and colour, realises they're all being shafted and have thrown away their independence and their fresh start. Just a matter of time.

Botswana, Zambia, Namibia and Zimbabwe are just the same in regards to the Chinese.

Every major contractor on infrastructure in Botswana is Chinese.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,289
Zambia did it in the 1970's and Zimbabwe followed suit 30 years later. Namibia is also about to do it along with South Africa too. With regards to South Africa, I'm frankly surprised it's taken this long.

Its Africa. Its a different world. Unless you've lived there amongst it, in black Sub-Saharan Africa, not a gated community in a leafy South African suburb with golf courses and swimming pools, day in, day out and been worn down by the utter madness of the place as I did it for several years, amongst African people, you'll never be able to comprehend. Everything comes down to race, ethnicity, tribe, language etc in Africa. When you have 'haves' and 'have nots' in terms of land ownership based on the legacies of colonialism and apartheid and the subjugation of people based on race, training up farmers and thinking about the negative economic factors doesn't come into it. Nothing else matters to some.

As in Zimbabwe, the smart new land occupiers in South Africa and Namibia will just lease back their new farms to the evicted farmers and grow tobacco if the land allows, further exacerbating it all too.

yeah i sort of get that i cant understand it at all. i met a few South Africans over the years particularly at uni, the black ones were positive and wanted to build a nation for the future, not looking back. sadly seems the politicians and a large amount of their electorate dont share the same vision. the white SA i met... not so positive, except one that hoped to retire to a small farm there.
what i really dont get is the general obsession with having a bit of land, being a subsistence farmer. suspect most wouldn't really want it at all if they knew what it entailed.
 




CPFC G

New member
Dec 24, 2011
1,067
Botswana, Zambia, Namibia and Zimbabwe are just the same in regards to the Chinese.

Every major contractor on infrastructure in Botswana is Chinese.

Sri Lanka has also had massive Chinese investment, They are buying power and influence all over the place.
 


ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,743
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
yeah i sort of get that i cant understand it at all. i met a few South Africans over the years particularly at uni, the black ones were positive and wanted to build a nation for the future, not looking back. sadly seems the politicians and a large amount of their electorate dont share the same vision. the white SA i met... not so positive, except one that hoped to retire to a small farm there.
what i really dont get is the general obsession with having a bit of land, being a subsistence farmer. suspect most wouldn't really want it at all if they knew what it entailed.

In terms of farms, they have been built up over decades and in some cases hundreds of years. Very difficult land to farm though in many cases, but they're generally not subsistence farms. Generally again, white farmers were/are rich, relatively or otherwise, to the indigenous population during the colonial or apartheid eras and afterwards. It all comes back to tribe - The land is seen as being stolen from tribal ancestors, how ever many years back, from black Africans by white colonial Europeans. That's just the way its seen.

In modern day South Africa, around King William's Town in the Eastern Cape, there are farms that have basically been family owned since the 1830's when it was given over to people who emigrated there from here when it was advertised as being the most fertile farmland in the British Empire (it wasn't) and having no native issues (it did - they were moved off) Nearly 190 years later the grievances are still there amongst many and it the quest for justice among descendants of the those tribal ancestors - its obsessional and its what the ancestors would want and it must happen out of respect to them.

Going back to proposed land reforms that are going to happen in Namibia - Google 'Herero and Namaqua genocide' There are white farmers today on land those tribes were cleared from by Imperial Germany. Again, I'm surprised its taken this long too and I'm sure you can see the problems there in terms of land ownership when a genocide occurred. I remember in 2011 living down there when skull and brain fragments were returned from Germany that were taken during that genocide over 100 years before - it was massive, headline news in every Southern African country. The legacy of the past will not go away and because of that past the minority white population still own the best land. Willing buyer, willing seller programmes have not worked - so they'll have to get on with it in South Africa and Namibia like happened in Zimbabwe and Zambia and take the consequences.
 


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