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[Misc] OT - Sexual Harassment at Work - BBC article and quiz



Hamilton

Hamilton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
12,454
Brighton
sussex_guy2k2 said:
Why is that though? I'd argue it's because the laws on sexual acts in this country depict women as victims and the men as the attackers. This filters down to how young people are educated and it then filters into how men and women act. Even now, with this desire for equality, there is still an expectation from women that men "make the move". It also leads to many men not reporting things which clearly are sexual harrassment/assault simply because it's not deemed to be "manly".

Basically, we can all be victims in some way, it just so happens that the way men and women tend to be victims in regards to this element of the law differs because of societal expectations of the different genders.
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OK Dr Robert Winston, I agree that behaviour begets behaviour and that it starts with education, but the laws of this land don't really depict anyone as victim. They are about what it is right and wrong to do. That is just the basics.

As for 'making the move.' Aren't we moving on from that? I think so. Besides, many of the examples of casual harassment come from, as you say, previous learned poor behaviour. That's why trivial things are not trivial.

Would I compliment a woman at work about her perfume? No. Why would I do that when I'm at work?

Which begs the question, why is she wearing it in the first place. Answer: For herself, not for me.
 




Bakero

Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
13,758
Almería
Mr Cleansheets said:
What a crock! Nearly every question was dependent on undisclosed "context". This is just part of the new puritanical movement designed to emasculate the last bit of juice remaining in our culture.
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Can't even harass the new girl at work now. Bloody snowflakes. Stop the world;I want to get off.
 


hart's shirt

hart's shirt

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
10,168
Kitbag in Dubai
Hamilton said:
Would I compliment a woman at work about her perfume?
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If she was working on the perfume counter, it would probably be ok.

"What an excellent range of perfumes you have."
 


ozzygull

ozzygull

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2003
3,832
Reading
I read the question from a female perspective and some of them seemed a bit harsh. But then I thought would I do that to a man at work. Would I comment that his aftershave smelt nice? No. I might think it, but to say it could mean that it is taken the wrong way , so I would keep it to myself. Which is the strange thing about perfume or aftershave you put it on for yourself and you also probably want people to think you smell nice, but don't really want them to mention it. Humans are strange.
 






nwgull

nwgull

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
13,756
Manchester
Bakero said:
It says if your flirting was unwanted and upset the victim it would be harassment. If you're upsetting people with your flirting, you need to work on your moves.
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If you're a good looking bloke, well groomed, in good physical shape and with good personal hygiene, it won't be harassment. If you're not all of these, you're a creep and can expect a call from HR.
 


S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
3,733
Hamilton said:
OK Dr Robert Winston, I agree that behaviour begets behaviour and that it starts with education, but the laws of this land don't really depict anyone as victim. They are about what it is right and wrong to do. That is just the basics.

As for 'making the move.' Aren't we moving on from that? I think so. Besides, many of the examples of casual harassment come from, as you say, previous learned poor behaviour. That's why trivial things are not trivial.

Would I compliment a woman at work about her perfume? No. Why would I do that when I'm at work?

Which begs the question, why is she wearing it in the first place. Answer: For herself, not for me.
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Unfortunately, you're flat out wrong. The worst sexual crime in this country is rape. Rape can only be committed by men. Rape can lead to up to 25 years in prison. The next nearest offence that women can be guilty of is worth up to 14 years in prison. I can promise you, as an ex-teacher, that 99% of education around sexual offences focuses on rape as the primary offence. I'll leave you to guess the genders of the respective victims and criminals in these education scenarios.

It may only be subliminal messaging, but we're taught from a young age that men are the perpetrators of sexual violence and women are the victims. We're actually taught this.

As to your question about complimenting a woman at work, please let me ask you this - how many times do you see women compliment each other at work? I would imagine it's a pretty regular occurrence. But a man does it and all of a sudden there's a potential issue of a potential sexual inference? It's because we're taught from a young age that women are the victims and men are the predators. And we're taught this because the law implies it.

As for my "making a move" point, I'd question whether we really are moving on from it? What we're moving towards is women getting more thoroughly pissed off at getting attention from men they don't want attention from, or from persistent attention from men that they've made it clear they have no interest in. But there are still a large portion of women in our society who want the man to make the first move, whether you agree with it or not; of course there is a way to make a move and plenty of ways not to.
 






Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,167
Goldstone
sussex_guy2k2 said:
I laughed at this question in particular because I had a very similar situation this morning. Although instead of complimenting her on her perfume, I just told her it had an interesting aroma that was a tad overpowering. I think the lady in question was mainly offended that I hadn't complimented her on how nice it was.
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Tough luck lady, you were on safer grounds offending her than complimenting her.
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,167
Goldstone
happypig said:
It would also have to pass the Reasonableness test (AKA "the man on the Clapham Omnibus") such that a normal person could find it offensive.
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That's the rather important point that the quiz missed out. As far as that quiz went, they'd say it was sexual harassment if someone felt uncomfortable that they could hear you breathing.
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,167
Goldstone
Hamilton said:
Would I compliment a woman at work about her perfume? No. Why would I do that when I'm at work?
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Some work relationships are purely professional and such a compliment would appear out of place. There are other occasions when our work colleagues are our best friends and it would be quite common to pay one of them a compliment.

Which begs the question, why is she wearing it in the first place. Answer: For herself, not for me.
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That's jumping to conclusions. I think it's fair to say that some people wear perfume for others.

ozzygull said:
Which is the strange thing about perfume or aftershave you put it on for yourself and you also probably want people to think you smell nice, but don't really want them to mention it. Humans are strange.
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I cannot picture a scenario where I'd be unhappy if someone told me my aftershave smelt nice.
 












Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,150
narly101 said:
Morning peeps - BBC have run with a very interesting article this morning on sexual harassment at work

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/931fb95e-039c-44db-a8f0-67bbd61fa30e

It also involves a quiz to get the mind working on what could constitute sexual harassment. - if you get the oppo be interesting to see what you get?

Yours truly got 7/7, but then I use to manage a large number of people and this stuff was focused on as part of our management training.
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Be pretty creepy not to get 7/7 tho eh? No 'management training' required. Hopefully.
 


Notters

Notters

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2003
24,869
Guiseley
Mustafa said:
It would be incredibly harsh if a young bloke complimented on a girls perfume, then got done for sexual harrassment because it made her feel uncomfortable, in my view.
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It is a bit of an odd one - surely the point in perfume is to smell nice, so surely one shouldn't get in trouble for saying so, but I guess it depends how it's said.
 




A

allystrat

Active member
Dec 19, 2011
210
Eventually we’ll get to the point when men will no longer ask women out for fear of being accused of sexual harassment. In fact, it’s probably already happening.
 




Hamilton

Hamilton

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Jul 7, 2003
12,454
Brighton
Triggaaar said:
I cannot picture a scenario where I'd be unhappy if someone told me my aftershave smelt nice.
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What if they were wearing a gimp mask and holding a large truncheon with a nail in it and you were tied to a four poster bed?
 


Hamilton

Hamilton

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Jul 7, 2003
12,454
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sussex_guy2k2 said:
how many times do you see women compliment each other at work? I would imagine it's a pretty regular occurrence. But a man does it and all of a sudden there's a potential issue of a potential sexual inference?
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I don't think so. I compliment men all the time at work, and I've never been accused of harassment.

As an ex-teacher, you'll no doubt support the personal and social education that takes place in schools. Obviously, it's only possible to talk about the realities, and if that relates to the fact that more sexual offences are committed by men against women, then so be it. Unfortunately, men are more responsible for domestic violence too. Men also commit more crime than women. In fact, there's a bit of a trend emerging here.

As to moving on, we are. There is so much more awareness of the issues and poor behaviour, and it's thanks to the work of teachers (like yourself) and emerging role models that society is changing.
 


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