[News] Climate change.

pastafarian · Dec 26, 2018

midnight_rendezvous said:
Or, as I previously suggested, we could use all the grains and crops we use to feed said animals to feed millions of people. Our consumption of meat has gone far beyond the realms of staving off starvation. When you have 100s of millions of people starving and yet we prioritise the growing of crops to feed those animals instead of starving millions, there is something seriously wrong with our global society.

Yes there is something wrong........too many people.
Humans eat meat as part of their diet, always have and always will.Turning vegetarian for nearly everyone(except the tiny number who are allergic) is a lifestyle choice

Thunder Bolt · Dec 26, 2018

pastafarian said:
Im sure the 100`s of millions of people experiencing hunger on a daily basis love to be told they are greedy gluttons. Whats the view like from the comfort of your first-world kitchen?

As usual, you cannot debate in a sensible manner. Greedy corporations not paying a decent price for commodities, so the farmers get a pittance, whilst crops like sugar cane, or cocoa, are hoarded to force the price up, for sale in the first world.
That's why I like Tearfund, because they pay the proper rate for their goods. It's a start.

beorhthelm · Dec 26, 2018

midnight_rendezvous said:
Or, as I previously suggested, we could use all the grains and crops we use to feed said animals to feed millions of people. Our consumption of meat has gone far beyond the realms of staving off starvation. When you have 100s of millions of people starving and yet we prioritise the growing of crops to feed those animals instead of starving millions, there is something seriously wrong with our global society.

while i see your point, there is also the problem that populations are too large where there is insufficent food to support them. diverting soya and corn from animal feed to developing countries would be a short term patch with negative consequences for long term economic and agricultural development.

midnight_rendezvous · Dec 26, 2018

pastafarian said:
Yes there is something wrong........too many people.
Humans eat meat as part of their diet, always have and always will.Turning vegetarian for nearly everyone(except the tiny number who are allergic) is a lifestyle choice

But we no longer need to. All nutrition you get from meat you can get from other sources, including many plants. We now know enough about nutrition and the impact that mass farming has on our environment to make better, more informed choices.

midnight_rendezvous · Dec 26, 2018

beorhthelm said:
while i see your point, there is also the problem that populations are too large where there is insufficent food to support them. diverting soya and corn from animal feed to developing countries would be a short term patch with negative consequences for long term economic and agricultural development.

It is in no way meant to be a perfect solution. The consequences are indeed uncertain but something needs to be done on a global scale to reduce carbon emission and as raising animals to eat produces more greenhouse gasses (via methane and nitrous oxide) than all of the carbon dioxide excreted by automobiles, boats, planes and trains in the world combined. Quitting, or simply reducing, your consumption of meat can reduce your carbon footprint significantly.

beorhthelm · Dec 26, 2018

midnight_rendezvous said:
It is in no way meant to be a perfect solution. The consequences are indeed uncertain but something needs to be done on a global scale to reduce carbon emission and as raising animals to eat produces more greenhouse gasses (via methane and nitrous oxide) than all of the carbon dioxide excreted by automobiles, boats, planes and trains in the world combined. Quitting, or simply reducing, your consumption of meat can reduce your carbon footprint significantly.

too bad the science is settled and we have to cut CO2 rather than do anything much about CH4.

pastafarian · Dec 26, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
As usual, you cannot debate in a sensible manner. Greedy corporations not paying a decent price for commodities, so the farmers get a pittance, whilst crops like sugar cane, or cocoa, are hoarded to force the price up, for sale in the first world.
That's why I like Tearfund, because they pay the proper rate for their goods. It's a start.

it was you not me that said people were greedy over resources

pastafarian · Dec 26, 2018

midnight_rendezvous said:
But we no longer need to. All nutrition you get from meat you can get from other sources, including many plants. We now know enough about nutrition and the impact that mass farming has on our environment to make better, more informed choices.

millions around the world dont have access to waitrose like you to buy a varied amount of fruit and vegetables. For some meat eating is essential.Would you deprive Mongols of their cattle and their nomad culture, force them to stay put and farm instead, all because you want them to be vegetarians
let me know when we evolve into herbivores.

worthingseagull123 · Dec 26, 2018

midnight_rendezvous said:
But we no longer need to. All nutrition you get from meat you can get from other sources, including many plants. We now know enough about nutrition and the impact that mass farming has on our environment to make better, more informed choices.

Whether we need to or not is not relevant.

I will chose what I eat. You, governments, vegan activists will not chose what I will eat.

waldegrave · Dec 27, 2018

Its interesting to see how the Global Warmers morphed into Climate Changers and now ...... Starvation Preventers. Seemingly even they have come to the unspoken realization that GW was nothing but a scam invented by a bunch of power hungry, money worshiping, unelected politicos, for fun and (of course) profit. The poster by for the Movement is now a starving member of the third world. Is hunger a problem? You bet your sweet bippy it is. Is it new problem caused by Fred Farkel driving his aging VW to work or Arthur McWealthy gliding around in his brand new Mercedes. No and, not really old friend. It has been around since, well, us human guys first showed up. The real problem is the GW/CC/SP promoters who need a small army of morons to go forth and spread the cataclysmic word. And they obviously have no problem with recruitment. If only the True Believers crowd could be turned into food - goodbye hunger. I'd settle for some realistic solutions. Whacking away at a keyboard and prattling on like the old fishwife, doesn't count. Grow up boys. There's plenty of disasters to go around without inventing more.

pastafarian · Dec 27, 2018

waldegrave said:
Its interesting to see how the Global Warmers morphed into Climate Changers and now ...... Starvation Preventers. Seemingly even they have come to the unspoken realization that GW was nothing but a scam invented by a bunch of power hungry, money worshiping, unelected politicos, for fun and (of course) profit. The poster by for the Movement is now a starving member of the third world. Is hunger a problem? You bet your sweet bippy it is. Is it new problem caused by Fred Farkel driving his aging VW to work or Arthur McWealthy gliding around in his brand new Mercedes. No and, not really old friend. It has been around since, well, us human guys first showed up. The real problem is the GW/CC/SP promoters who need a small army of morons to go forth and spread the cataclysmic word. And they obviously have no problem with recruitment. If only the True Believers crowd could be turned into food - goodbye hunger. I'd settle for some realistic solutions. Whacking away at a keyboard and prattling on like the old fishwife, doesn't count. Grow up boys. There's plenty of disasters to go around without inventing more.

I get the funny feeling a few on here might disagree with you that global warming etc is a scam and an invented disaster..............just saying, best of luck.

wellquickwoody · Dec 27, 2018

Mustafa said:
Has anyone who is still alive today ever experienced snow on Christmas day in Sussex for it to be nostalgic??

Yep, ‘71 I think, not much mind.

Klaas · Dec 27, 2018

waldegrave said:
Its interesting to see how the Global Warmers morphed into Climate Changers and now ...... Starvation Preventers. Seemingly even they have come to the unspoken realization that GW was nothing but a scam invented by a bunch of power hungry, money worshiping, unelected politicos, for fun and (of course) profit. The poster by for the Movement is now a starving member of the third world. Is hunger a problem? You bet your sweet bippy it is. Is it new problem caused by Fred Farkel driving his aging VW to work or Arthur McWealthy gliding around in his brand new Mercedes. No and, not really old friend. It has been around since, well, us human guys first showed up. The real problem is the GW/CC/SP promoters who need a small army of morons to go forth and spread the cataclysmic word. And they obviously have no problem with recruitment. If only the True Believers crowd could be turned into food - goodbye hunger. I'd settle for some realistic solutions. Whacking away at a keyboard and prattling on like the old fishwife, doesn't count. Grow up boys. There's plenty of disasters to go around without inventing more.

How you doing Looney? :wave:

Thunder Bolt · Dec 27, 2018

pastafarian said:
it was you not me that said people were greedy over resources

Conveniently you only quote one half of my sentence. I said corporations and people are greedy.
We in the first world are greedy. We have an obesity problem, throw away food every day, whilst millions are starving.
War is greed through power, and causes starvation, such as in Yemen.

Seagull27 · Dec 27, 2018

pastafarian said:
millions around the world dont have access to waitrose like you to buy a varied amount of fruit and vegetables. For some meat eating is essential.Would you deprive Mongols of their cattle and their nomad culture, force them to stay put and farm instead, all because you want them to be vegetarians
let me know when we evolve into herbivores.

The Mongols who farm their own cattle in small amounts are not the problem, if everyone did that it would be much more sustainable. It's mass farming that is the problem, so it's us that needs to cut down.

And if you're bringing it on to evolution - we evolved to be omnivores that would naturally only eat meat once or twice a week, with most of our diet being made up of nuts and berries. I don't believe going vegan is the answer, if all of us just went down to eating meat a couple of times a week then we'd vastly cut emissions (and probably be a lot healthier too)

I'm saying this as someone who has just gorged on about a month's worth of meat in a few days though, I fully appreciate why people are resistant to cutting down or cutting out meat because it's just so damn tasty, and it would mean changing our lifestyles for the worse. No-one wants to do that and it's easier just to believe the problem doesn't exist.

midnight_rendezvous · Dec 27, 2018

pastafarian said:
millions around the world dont have access to waitrose like you to buy a varied amount of fruit and vegetables. For some meat eating is essential.Would you deprive Mongols of their cattle and their nomad culture, force them to stay put and farm instead, all because you want them to be vegetarians
let me know when we evolve into herbivores.

You honestly think Waitrose is the only place to get a range of fruit and vegetables? You poor soul. Did I say the whole world should go veggie? Or vegan? I said society should collectively reduce their meat intake, something which is perfectly doable in a lot of countries. In the UK alone, an estimated 86 million chickens are thrown away every year. Are you honestly suggesting more couldn’t be done?

midnight_rendezvous · Dec 27, 2018

worthingseagull123 said:
Whether we need to or not is not relevant.

I will chose what I eat. You, governments, vegan activists will not chose what I will eat.

So you wouldn’t reduce your meat intake, knowing it could have a positive impact on the environment simply because you feel others are overreaching? I’m no fan of a ‘nanny state’ but considering what it is at stake I’d be willing to get over myself for it. What a very shortsighted, selfish individual you’d have to be to disregard the positive impact it would have.

midnight_rendezvous · Dec 27, 2018

beorhthelm said:
too bad the science is settled and we have to cut CO2 rather than do anything much about CH4.

That’s not strictly true though is it. Methane, the gas produced extensively by the livestock industry worldwide, traps up to 100 times more heat in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide within a 5 year period. Focusing on carbon emissions is only half the battle – or 74 percent of total emissions to be exact – but, focusing on the percentage of total emissions is extremely misleading because it ignores global warming potential altogether.

With the UN establishing various tipping points for irreversible climate change damage on the horizon, it’s time that methane enters mainstream consideration. And better yet, the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) estimates that livestock production is responsible for 14.5 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions, while other organisations like the Worldwatch Institute have estimated it could be as much as 51 percent – it’s time that we look beyond our petrol tanks and on to our plates.

worthingseagull123 · Dec 27, 2018

midnight_rendezvous said:
So you wouldn’t reduce your meat intake, knowing it could have a positive impact on the environment simply because you feel others are overreaching? I’m no fan of a ‘nanny state’ but considering what it is at stake I’d be willing to get over myself for it. What a very shortsighted, selfish individual you’d have to be to disregard the positive impact it would have.

Do be quiet.

It is not your bedtime yet?

portslade seagull · Dec 27, 2018

midnight_rendezvous said:
You honestly think Waitrose is the only place to get a range of fruit and vegetables? You poor soul. Did I say the whole world should go veggie? Or vegan? I said society should collectively reduce their meat intake, something which is perfectly doable in a lot of countries. In the UK alone, an estimated 86 million chickens are thrown away every year. Are you honestly suggesting more couldn’t be done?

86 million chickens thrown away. Is that for real ?, if so that is bad

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