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[Misc] Was your Grandad or Great Grandad an Old Contemptible?



The Old Contemptibles was the association of old soldiers in the First World War who fought in the Battle of Mons on August 23rd 2014. This was the first battle of the war when the BEF first encountered the German Army on the other side of the canal at Nimy, just outside Mons in Southern Belgium.

They were heavily outnumbered and needed to retreat or they would have been overrun. Many were killed in the battle but many more managed a (relatively) organised retreat to live and fight another day. Or, in many cases, live and die another day. But at least they managed to survive the Battle of Mons.

My grandfather was in the 4th Royal Fusiliers who fought in the battle and thanks in no small way to two very brave soldiers who manned a machine gun on the bridge over the canal and held up the German Army for the best part of an hour which allowed many soldiers, including my Grandad, to retreat. These two guys, Lt Maurice Dease and Private Sid Godley (who came from East Grinstead) were awarded the first two VC's of WW1

My grandfather survived not only Mons but the whole war. He was very active in the Old Contemptibles (the Kaiser supposedly described the BEF as that contemptible little army so they adopted the title for their old comrades association) and when I was 14 or 15 I went with him on a couple of his trips back to the battlefields.

Anybody else the offspring of an Old Contemptible?

If you want evidence of the futility of WW1 you should go to Mons. About a mile outside the town on the road to Brussells you will see on the left a plaque stating that the first shot in the war was fired close by. Cross the road, no more than 50 or 60 paces and you will see another plaque saying that the last shot in the war was fired there, by the Canadians.

The war started in Mons, headed south to the stalemate of the trenches and over 4 years later came back to Mons and finished no more than 50 or 60 paces from where it started.

50 or 60 paces sepated by counless millions dead.

I will be wearing my Grandad's Old Contemptibles badge tomorrow.

images


We will remember them.
 


portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
16,979
The bit about the war starting and ending a few metres apart is wonderfully symbolic; but simply not true. It’s like VE day. War in Europe finished in September, not May. Or last ever soldier to die just before armistice called...what about the thousands who died of their wounds in the months and years to come? It’s simply not accurate but does provide a neat tale about the futility of war.
 


AmexRuislip

Trainee Spy 🕵️‍♂️
Feb 2, 2014
33,727
Ruislip
The Old Contemptibles was the association of old soldiers in the First World War who fought in the Battle of Mons on August 23rd 2014. This was the first battle of the war when the BEF first encountered the German Army on the other side of the canal at Nimy, just outside Mons in Southern Belgium.

They were heavily outnumbered and needed to retreat or they would have been overrun. Many were killed in the battle but many more managed a (relatively) organised retreat to live and fight another day. Or, in many cases, live and die another day. But at least they managed to survive the Battle of Mons.

My grandfather was in the 4th Royal Fusiliers who fought in the battle and thanks in no small way to two very brave soldiers who manned a machine gun on the bridge over the canal and held up the German Army for the best part of an hour which allowed many soldiers, including my Grandad, to retreat. These two guys, Lt Maurice Dease and Private Sid Godley (who came from East Grinstead) were awarded the first two VC's of WW1

My grandfather survived not only Mons but the whole war. He was very active in the Old Contemptibles (the Kaiser supposedly described the BEF as that contemptible little army so they adopted the title for their old comrades association) and when I was 14 or 15 I went with him on a couple of his trips back to the battlefields.

Anybody else the offspring of an Old Contemptible?

If you want evidence of the futility of WW1 you should go to Mons. About a mile outside the town on the road to Brussells you will see on the left a plaque stating that the first shot in the war was fired close by. Cross the road, no more than 50 or 60 paces and you will see another plaque saying that the last shot in the war was fired there, by the Canadians.

The war started in Mons, headed south to the stalemate of the trenches and over 4 years later came back to Mons and finished no more than 50 or 60 paces from where it started.

50 or 60 paces sepated by counless millions dead.

I will be wearing my Grandad's Old Contemptibles badge tomorrow.

images


We will remember them.

Yes, my grandad was a Contemptible.
He was in the Inniskilling Fusiliers, who fought at Gallipoli and ended becoming a POW towards the end of the Great War.
Came back to UK, ended up fighting in the Battle of the Somme.
Taken POW 6 months before the end of the war.
Lived the rest of his life carrying shrapnel inside him.
Lovely man, but never ever talked about WW1.


Enjoy your day tomorrow :thumbsup:
 
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The bit about the war starting and ending a few metres apart is wonderfully symbolic; but simply not true. It’s like VE day. War in Europe finished in September, not May. Or last ever soldier to die just before armistice called...what about the thousands who died of their wounds in the months and years to come? It’s simply not accurate but does provide a neat tale about the futility of war.

Strictly speaking the war didn't finish till 1919 when the Treaty of Versailles was signed outside Paris. If you look at the war memorial in Grand Avenue in Hove you will see it talks about the Great War 1914 - 1919.

Yes thousands died of wounds after the Armistice came into effect. And millions more died from Spanish flu, many of whom would have been WW1 combatants. Probably the plaques in Mons are not absolutely historically precise but as you say, they are symbolic. Very much so. The actual fighting did start near Mons and finished near Mons.
 


Yes, my grandad was a Contemptible.
He was in the Inniskilling Fusiliers, who fought at Gallipoli and ended becoming a POW towards the end of the Great War.
Came back to UK, ended up fighting in the Battle of the Somme.
Taken POW 6 months before the end of the war.
Lived the rest of his life carrying shrapnel inside him.
Lovely man, but never ever talked about WW1.


Enjoy your day tomorrow :thumbsup:

My Grandad fought at the Somme as well.

Hi Chum :thumbsup:
 






Do you know much of your grandfathers war history?
Have a copy of his records/ medal card.
This can all be obtained from the National Archives at Kew.

Not as much as I'd like to. I went to Kew but they didn't have a great deal. I bought a copy of the Foyal Fusiliers in the Great war a few years back but I'm ashamed to say I've only dipped into it.

I just bought this from Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/Old-Contemptibles-British-Expeditionary-Force-ebook/dp/B015T999R6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1541878153&sr=8-3&keywords=old+contemptibles using Bozza's link of course!!
 


oneillco

Well-known member
Feb 13, 2013
1,259
Yes, my grandad was a Contemptible.
He was in the Inniskilling Fusiliers, who fought at Gallipoli and ended becoming a POW towards the end of the Great War.
Came back to UK, ended up fighting in the Battle of the Somme.
Taken POW 6 months before the end of the war.
Lived the rest of his life carrying shrapnel inside him.
Lovely man, but never ever talked about WW1.


Enjoy your day tomorrow :thumbsup:

My maternal grandfather from Kerry was a corporal in the Royal Munster Fusiliers and was also at Gallipoli; the rest of the war he spent in Mesopotamia and Palestine and though not wounded carried the souvenir of bouts of malaria until his death in 1986. I found it really frustrating that he wouldn't tell me about his experiences, although he did let slip once that his Lee Enfield stock took a bullet that would have struck him. My father's side were seafarers from Wexford and two of his uncles went down on HMS Black Prince at Jutland.
 




theboybilly

Well-known member
I read somewhere that the Kaiser's remark about 'Contemptible' army was, in a roundabout way, a compliment to the ordinary British soldier as there is no true translation from German for the word he used. What he in fact was alluding to was that the British seemed (to him) to possess an over-confidence that such a small force could check the might of the German advance through Belgium. A 'contemptibly small army' rather than an army of contemptibles.
 


Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,323
Uffern
I read somewhere that the Kaiser's remark about 'Contemptible' army was, in a roundabout way, a compliment to the ordinary British soldier as there is no true translation from German for the word he used. What he in fact was alluding to was that the British seemed (to him) to possess an over-confidence that such a small force could check the might of the German advance through Belgium. A 'contemptibly small army' rather than an army of contemptibles.

There's no evidence that the Kaiser ever said such a thing, as no such order has ever been produced. It seems to have been British propaganda - quite effective as it's still being used 100 years later.

http://blog.helion.co.uk/spencer-jones-was-the-kaisers-old-contemptibles-telegram-a-fabrication/

Besides, there is a German word for contemptible - verächtlich

My grandfather was a regular soldier at the start of WW1 but he was serving in India/Afghanistan not in the BEF
 


AmexRuislip

Trainee Spy 🕵️‍♂️
Feb 2, 2014
33,727
Ruislip
My maternal grandfather from Kerry was a corporal in the Royal Munster Fusiliers and was also at Gallipoli; the rest of the war he spent in Mesopotamia and Palestine and though not wounded carried the souvenir of bouts of malaria until his death in 1986. I found it really frustrating that he wouldn't tell me about his experiences, although he did let slip once that his Lee Enfield stock took a bullet that would have struck him. My father's side were seafarers from Wexford and two of his uncles went down on HMS Black Prince at Jutland.

Although I did mentioned he never spoke of WW1.
My dad did tell me, that when he was a young lad, he found my grandads knife/bayonet, hidden in the outhouse at their home in Hastings.
When he went back later, after a brief mention to his dad, it had been removed.
 




swindonseagull

Well-known member
Aug 6, 2003
9,228
Swindon, but used to be Manila
My Grandad joined the Royal Naval Division ( Howe battalion) at the age of 15.....he lied!
He to fought at Gallipoli and on the Somme he made it home from the war but died before I was born.
Mum said he never ever talked about the war either.

I have all his papers and medals and the letters he sent home to Portslade.
 


portslade seagull

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2003
17,588
portslade
My Grandad was a cavalarymen and was due to charge the lines at the Somme until they saw the madness of it. He lost two brothers and hated talking about anything to do with the war
 


I think I need to clarify what I meant when I started this thread.

I have the utmost admiration and respect for anyone who fought in the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) during the early part of WW1 and were referred to by the Kaiser (possibly, but possibly not) as the contemtible little army. These people are often referred to by others and themselves as Contemptibles. If ever a nickname was innapropriate it is this one.

But what I should have asked was does anyone who had a Grandfather or Great Grandfather who was a member of the Old Contemptibles Association.

The Old Contemptibles Association was founded by Captain JP Danny, RA, on 25 June 1925. Membership was limited to veterans of the regular army who had served in the British Expeditionary Force in France and Flanders within range of enemy artillery during the period 5 August to 22 November 1914 and had thus taken part in the desperate early battles and retreats before the advancing German forces, before the tide turned and the allies counterattacked at the Battle of the Marne.

Obviously this would include every veteran who was in the retreat from Mons and the resulting fighting before the Battle of the Marne

But it would only include those veterans. Other members of the BEF who fought incredibly barvely will no doubt have their own Old Comrades Associations but they wouldn't have been eligible to join the Old Contemptibles Association I was talking about, who traditionally addressed each other as "Chum"

This would explain the puzzled expression on [MENTION=28934]AmexRuislip[/MENTION]'s face when I called him Chum!

My Gradfather, Tom Judd, was Treasurer and Chairman of the Hounslow branch of the Association.

Does anyone else have a relative who was a member of this Association? Or who fought in the Battle of Mons?
 




AmexRuislip

Trainee Spy 🕵️‍♂️
Feb 2, 2014
33,727
Ruislip
I think I need to clarify what I meant when I started this thread.

I have the utmost admiration and respect for anyone who fought in the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) during the early part of WW1 and were referred to by the Kaiser (possibly, but possibly not) as the contemtible little army. These people are often referred to by others and themselves as Contemptibles. If ever a nickname was innapropriate it is this one.

But what I should have asked was does anyone who had a Grandfather or Great Grandfather who was a member of the Old Contemptibles Association.

The Old Contemptibles Association was founded by Captain JP Danny, RA, on 25 June 1925. Membership was limited to veterans of the regular army who had served in the British Expeditionary Force in France and Flanders within range of enemy artillery during the period 5 August to 22 November 1914 and had thus taken part in the desperate early battles and retreats before the advancing German forces, before the tide turned and the allies counterattacked at the Battle of the Marne.

Obviously this would include every veteran who was in the retreat from Mons and the resulting fighting before the Battle of the Marne

But it would only include those veterans. Other members of the BEF who fought incredibly barvely will no doubt have their own Old Comrades Associations but they wouldn't have been eligible to join the Old Contemptibles Association I was talking about, who traditionally addressed each other as "Chum"

This would explain the puzzled expression on [MENTION=28934]AmexRuislip[/MENTION]'s face when I called him Chum!

My Gradfather, Tom Judd, was Treasurer and Chairman of the Hounslow branch of the Association.

Does anyone else have a relative who was a member of this Association? Or who fought in the Battle of Mons?

I did wonder, why you called me chum.
I've just chatted to my dad and has corrected me on this, that my grandad was not indeed a Contemptible.
Cantankerous yes :lolol:
 


Not "Old Contemptibles" but both Grandfather and his father served in WW1 and both survived despite "close shaves". Great Grandad survived the sinking on HMS Hythe off Gallipoli (see Google for details of the debacle which cost the lives of many from the Tunbridge Wells area). Passed away long before I arrived on the scene but family memories recall that he liked to tell the tale of the incident which always ended with "....I jumped and I jumped and I jumped all the way from here to bloody Langton Green (his neighbouring village) to get off that ship"!

His son, my Grandfather, lied about his age to join at 17 and stopped a bullet in his shoulder - fortunately nothing too serious or I wouldn't be writing this. Always one for a "leg pull" he always assured us that he was shot by one of his comrades who was a very poor marksman, also that it was whilst he was in the act of winning a VC but sadly no one witnessed it!.

He was in the Home Guard during WWII and a keen fan of "Dad's Army" which he assured us was pretty close to the reality of it!
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,867
I know that my Grandfather on my mothers side saw active duty in France, I have never pieced together exactly what he did but my mother said he was wounded as a stretcher bearer, I am not sure if this was his actual role or if he was rotated on to stretcher duty from a frontline role. either way, he took 4 machine gun bullets in his left arm which broke his arm plus messed up his tendons and meant he had limited use of his left arm for the rest of his life.

At one point on the front line he was caught up in a gas attack and was lucky to survive as a shell containing gas landed close behind him and collapsed the trench over him and pitched him headfirst into the collapsing trench. He was not wearing a gas mask at the time and luckily he was dug out unconscious a few minutes later still alive. there, but for the grace of God etc etc otherwise I would not be here.
 


dejavuatbtn

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2010
7,128
Henfield
No, but my great granddad got blown to pieces in October 1917 by a plane dropping a bomb on his regiment whilst resting before returning to the trenches at Passendaelle. 50 dead and injured. He had only been over there for 2 months, and most of that training near Dieppe.
Interesting the current press reports of how nicely the war graves commission got headstones sorted and they were all engraved with words requested by the grieving families. What they didn’t say was that the families were billed for this priviledge! I have copies of the paperwork and some of his letters home, even one written the day before he died.
 




Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,323
Uffern
Both my grandfathers served, as did my great-grandfather, who volunteered in his 40s. The maternal GF and GGF could also have been excused as they were miners and in a reserved occupation. Fortunately, all three came home safely but were profoundly affected by the experience.

Respect to all who served, Old Contemptible or not.
 


Seagull's Return

Active member
Nov 7, 2003
846
Brighton
Yes, my grandfather was an Old Contemptible, though I don't know if he was a member of the Association. 7 years as an infantryman (2nd South Lancs), then a further 14 in RE Signals Service and later Royal Corps of Signals to complete his 21. He was a Londoner who moved to Brighton when he retired from the army as a CQMS; rejoined in WW2 to train recruits to his old Corps. Lost 2 of his 3 brothers in the First World War and apparently never spoke of it at all. Three of his sons fought in the Second World War - all survived, thankfully.
 



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