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[Football] Wayne Rooney to make England comeback



mejonaNO12 aka riskit

mejonaNO12 aka riskit

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2003
21,498
England
The US game (friendly) is 66 hours before the Croatia game (competitive)

The US game will be very much a second string/loads of subs.

The real KEY to these weeks is getting the players together in the first place. Having them train together. WAZZA having a 30 min run out with the fringe players will not have the detrimental effect on the development of English football that seems to be hinted at :lolol:

Also, people are talking as if Rooney has taken some other in-form player's place in the squad. The squad hasn't been announced yet. Southgate has been picking LOADS of keepers recently. He can comfortably fit in Wilson if he wants (which I think he should).

Do I LIKE the idea of this gesture? Not particularly, but it's hardly going to DESTROY the work Gareth and the chaps are doing. And, if you've got a young squad there, why not benefit from Mr Rooney being around training for a bit. He's hardly going to be Mario Balotelli and start kicking off is he.
 
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Gazwag

Gazwag

5 millionth post poster
Mar 4, 2004
30,145
Bexhill-on-Sea
Its not really anything to do with his charity is it really, its just an ego thing for him. I bet the amount of money raised that night will be a pittance of the amount he has probably put him himself to set up the charity (and of course get tax relief in doing so)
 


Easy 10

Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
61,767
Location Location
mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
The US game (friendly) is 66 hours before the Croatia game (competitive)

The US game will be very much a second string/loads of subs.

The real KEY to these weeks is getting the players together in the first place. Having them train together. WAZZA having a 30 min run out with the fringe players will not have the detrimental effect on the development of English football that seems to be hinted at :lolol:
Click to expand...

The USA game (Thursday) should be being used as preparation for the Croatia game (Sunday). Its an opportunity to fine-tune selections and tactics, and look at our forward options. Instead, we're binning this game off in order to make it a farewell hurrah for a player who's already retired and been put out to graze. Brilliant.

Southgate can hardly complain about not having enough time with the players after this farce plays out.

Its just unprofessional IMO.
 


Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,797
Hove
mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
The US game (friendly) is 66 hours before the Croatia game (competitive)

The US game will be very much a second string/loads of subs.

The real KEY to these weeks is getting the players together in the first place. Having them train together. WAZZA having a 30 min run out with the fringe players will not have the detrimental effect on the development of English football that seems to be hinted at :lolol:
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the principle at stake rather than the actual impact. The England team has always been, and should always be a squad selection by the current manager based on merit and their tactical requirements. This changes that to accommodate a selection not on merit or requirements for the team, it is a PR exercise. There will be a player like a Lewis Dunk who will miss out on joining the squad and experiencing the England setup because of this.
 


mejonaNO12 aka riskit

mejonaNO12 aka riskit

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2003
21,498
England
Easy 10 said:
The USA game (Thursday) should be being used as preparation for the Croatia game (Sunday). Its an opportunity to fine-tune selections and tactics, and look at our forward options.
Click to expand...

No it's not. He will not be playing even REMOTELY close to his starting line up for the Croatia game. The USA game is Thursday night. That gives Friday rest, Saturday light training before 2pm game on the Sunday. The US do not play in the same way as Croatia. The tactics for that game will not be the same.

I imagine the team for USA will be something like; Butland, Rose, Gomez, DUNK(?), Trent AA, Winks, Barkley (or Dier?), Maddison, Sancho, Welbeck, WILSON?

Remember, the Croatia game is limited to 3 subs. The USA game is the chance to let a lot players get a run out. It wont be fluid, it will be disjointed. Rooneys participation in a little cameo isn't going to really do much.
 




mejonaNO12 aka riskit

mejonaNO12 aka riskit

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2003
21,498
England
Bold Seagull said:
I think you're missing the principle at stake rather than the actual impact. The England team has always been, and should always be a squad selection by the current manager based on merit and their tactical requirements. This changes that to accommodate a selection not on merit or requirements for the team, it is a PR exercise. There will be a player like a Lewis Dunk who will miss out on joining the squad and experiencing the England setup because of this.
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I agree with you. I stated I didn't like the idea.

But no one will really 'miss out' because of this. Southgate picked FOUR keepers last time. Since the last squad, one of those keepers (Betenelli) has been dropped by his club. That is a player not in form by default. That leaves 3 keepers and a 'new' opening since the last squad. I really can't see him sitting there with his hands tied, unable to pick a player he REALLY wants in his squad because Rooney is there.

This will not halt the development of English football.
 
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Easy 10

Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
61,767
Location Location
mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
No it's not. He will not be playing even REMOTELY close to his starting line up for the Croatia game. The USA game is Thursday night. That gives Friday rest, Saturday light training before 2pm game on the Sunday. The US do not play in the same way as Croatia. The tactics for that game will not be the same.

I imagine the team for USA will be something like; Butland, Rose, Gomez, DUNK(?), Trent AA, Winks, Barkley (or Dier?), Maddison, Sancho, Welbeck, WILSON?

Remember, the Croatia game is limited to 3 subs. The USA game is the chance to let a lot players get a run out. It wont be fluid, it will be disjointed. Rooneys participation in a little cameo isn't going to really do much.
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We'll have to agree to disagree then. Whatever way you slice it, Rooney's IMPOSED selection for the USA game blocks off a place in the team for a current or potential squad member, who could be getting vital playing time in the team before an important game on the Sunday, maybe staking a claim for a starting place. Will it "halt" the developments of english football ? Not overall, no. But it does absolutely nothing to help Southgate's preparation for a proper game, and I would imagine that he is privately absolutely livid at this.
 


dejavuatbtn

dejavuatbtn

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2010
7,204
Henfield
When I first heard this I thought it was a joke. Turns out to be a real joke.
Why on earth didn’t they just call it an FA XI like in the old days?
Internationals are supposed to be for internationals or developing potential internationals. Rooney is neither anymore.
 




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,797
Hove
mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
I agree with you. I stated I didn't like the idea.

But no one will really 'miss out' because of this. Southgate picked FOUR keepers last time. Since the last squad, one of those keepers (Betenelli) has been dropped by his club. That is a player not in form by default. That leaves 3 keepers and a 'new' opening since the last squad. I really can't see him sitting there with his hands tied, unable to pick a player he REALLY wants in his squad because Rooney is there.

This will not halt the development of English football.
Click to expand...

You know Manchester United not competing in the FA Cup as holders in 2000 didn't end the cup either, but then again as a principle, wasn't great was it. I put this in the same bracket. Sure, the football world will carry on, it won't halt the development of English football, but a little part dies when you chip away at traditions and principles.
 


Easy 10

Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
61,767
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As usual, Martin Samuel has it spot on. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...news-England-USA-game-turned-arm-showbiz.html

Present him with a commemorative gold England cap. Name the game in his honour. Give his charities the entire proceeds.

Let his kids be the mascots and put his favourite band on at half-time. Just don’t put Wayne Rooney in the England team on November 15.

It is too late for U-turns now, Rooney’s end have made sure of that. The plan was for the Football Association to announce its latest brainwave this week, when they could massage and promote a decision that is the opposite to all Gareth Southgate has hoped to achieve in his time as England manager.

Now the news has leaked, they have lost control – even of their own fixture against the United States. It is the RooFest now, cigarette lighters at the ready.

It does not matter whether he plays for ten minutes or 90. They have turned an England international into another arm of showbiz.

The national team is a tribute act and the record books deserving of an asterisk. Rooney made 119 appearances for England – and one that was a charity job.

David Beckham was offered the same opportunity some years ago and turned it down. He said he would only play on merit. Good for him.

Other countries do it, is the FA’s argument – the same one they advanced for going without a national stadium.

So why can’t England be different? Why can’t this be the country where caps – all caps – have meaning? When nothing is given cheaply, or on name alone. Isn’t it time they got their own ideas?

Not that this will come cheap, of course. The next time Southgate stresses the importance of non-competitive internationals to his players, their club bosses will have the perfect counter-claim.

What about the testimonial? What about the week of training that featured a player who had effectively retired from international football more than a year ago? It was Rooney’s decision to turn down Southgate’s consideration of a recall in August 2017.

That was the time when he could have won a legitimate 120th cap. Why accept one now? For charity? If it’s charity that's at stake, give Rooney’s foundation the proceeds of the match with Spain in October. There were over 80,000 there that night.

Anyway, the charity could still benefit without Rooney on the pitch. His presence is all that would be required. There could have been a ceremony, a send-off.

The FA could have paid tribute, done right by their greatest goalscorer; they just didn’t have to further undermine the worth of international football in the process.

And where is Southgate in this? One of his greatest successes is the overhaul of England, the projection of youth on a team that was looking tired and complacent. Southgate won in Spain with England’s youngest starting XI since 1959 – and his next match is this?

If you’re good enough, you’re old enough, is the saying, and the same applies to experience. If Rooney justified his recall on merit then, even at 33, he’s young enough, too.

But he made his decision. Finished with England, finished with the major leagues, too. It is a pity it all seemed to end so suddenly, because he was a great player, but that’s football.

Few get to choose their exit. The FA have changed that. They could have written a cheque, instead they have set a precedent that will be impossible to ignore. Certainly the next time Southgate attempts to emphasise the meaning of the international game.
 


Easy 10

Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
61,767
Location Location
5784598-0-image-a-24_1541415835774.jpg


:facepalm:
 




Badger Boy

Badger Boy

Mr Badger
Jan 28, 2016
3,655
Some people really are getting themselves worked up over nothing here, what's the problem? It's a friendly game against the USA and an opportunity to formally recognise one of England's greatest ever players. He is second only to Peter Shilton in the total number of appearances and he's the all time top goalscorer. Although he ultimately flattered to deceive for England, if he hadn't been injured during Euro 2004 I honestly think we'd have won that tournament and then the whole conversation is different and he's remembered for his part in that tournament. Although we didn't win it, he still deserves recognition for a fantastic career.
 


dejavuatbtn

dejavuatbtn

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2010
7,204
Henfield
Badger Boy said:
Some people really are getting themselves worked up over nothing here, what's the problem? It's a friendly game against the USA and an opportunity to formally recognise one of England's greatest ever players. He is second only to Peter Shilton in the total number of appearances and he's the all time top goalscorer. Although he ultimately flattered to deceive for England, if he hadn't been injured during Euro 2004 I honestly think we'd have won that tournament and then the whole conversation is different and he's remembered for his part in that tournament. Although we didn't win it, he still deserves recognition for a fantastic career.
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To be fair, I think this was done with his last few caps. To refuse England and then come back into the gold like this is a disgrace, other than earn a few bob for those with bets on him getting selected again. Bet, bet, bet. Roll up, roll up.
 


Gritt23

Gritt23

New member
Jul 7, 2003
14,902
Meopham, Kent.
Bakero said:
Callum Wilson?
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Yep, that's the fella.

We won't throw him in to the Croatia game because the Nations League does mean something, so the USA game looked ideal. If he plays now, he'll be stood around waiting for Rooney to have done his lap of honour first.
 




Gritt23

Gritt23

New member
Jul 7, 2003
14,902
Meopham, Kent.
Badger Boy said:
Form is form, it doesn't matter where it is. The standard of opposition is certainly relevant, but form is form.
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Yeah, but it does though doesn't it. Have you seen the goals Jake Robinson has been scoring the last year and a bit? But he's not about to get a call-up when it's for Billericay Town is he.

You might still call it "form" but it's not relevant form.
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,187
Badger Boy said:
Some people really are getting themselves worked up over nothing here, what's the problem? It's a friendly game against the USA and an opportunity to formally recognise one of England's greatest ever players. He is second only to Peter Shilton in the total number of appearances and he's the all time top goalscorer. Although he ultimately flattered to deceive for England, if he hadn't been injured during Euro 2004 I honestly think we'd have won that tournament and then the whole conversation is different and he's remembered for his part in that tournament. Although we didn't win it, he still deserves recognition for a fantastic career.
Click to expand...

So give the overweight scally a plaque and a minute's applause before the game then and leave it at that :shrug:
 




Gritt23

Gritt23

New member
Jul 7, 2003
14,902
Meopham, Kent.
Badger Boy said:
he still deserves recognition for a fantastic career.
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There is a MASSIVE difference between recognition (which he deserves) and coming back into the side for a "One Night Only" special, earning a Cap in a Full International, and putting the brakes (albeit minimal) on the change that Southgate is driving through that squad.

Someone who was otherwise getting a squad place, someone who was otherwise getting a starting place, is missing out because getting a standing ovation as he's introduced to the crowd in the centre circle before the game, a game that has been named in his honour, where the proceeds go to his charity ... is insufficient. We have to roll him out in the team like a testimonial.

Well, this won't be the last, we've set a precedent now. While we can joke about it being older players, recognising Geoff Hurst with a starting role in the next friendly etc, the reality is that we are setting ourselves up for this happening every time a "big name" says he's done with playing for England anymore.
 






B

Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,371
Badger Boy said:
Form is form, it doesn't matter where it is. The standard of opposition is certainly relevant, but form is form.
Click to expand...

Well yes 'form is form' the same as 'brexit means brexit'. Showing 'form' though on its own doesn't qualify you for the national team; to say it "doesn't matter where" is complete bollocks. Otherwise James Norwood (Tranmere Rovers) is due a call up. He's bang in form in League 2.
 


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