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[Help] O/T Boiler/ neighbour Advice



pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,279
Jonesy said:
It was permitted development and is on the council website
Click to expand...

Even though it was permitted development it should still comply with BR. The fact it was submitted to and approved by the council suggests that either:

Your flue was neglected in the design.
The council missed this in their review.
Or it was considered OK.

I would be very surprised if it was the last one as it puts your life at risk.

Looks like the regulations changed in 2002, prior to this flues just had to be located a sufficient distance away from openings and situated to allow free intake of air etc. no explicit mention of distance from boundaries.
 




J

Jonesy

New member
Aug 7, 2011
75
pb21 said:
Even though it was permitted development it should still comply with BR. The fact it was submitted to and approved by the council suggests that either:

Your flue was neglected in the design.
The council missed this in their review.
Or it was considered OK.

I would be very surprised if it was the last one as it puts your life at risk.

Looks like the regulations changed in 2002, prior to this flues just had to be located a sufficient distance away from openings and situated to allow free intake of air etc. no explicit mention of distance from boundaries.
Click to expand...

Just spoken to Building Control and Planning Dept at the council and a neighbours boiler flue is not something that's considered as part of either process.

It is a civil matter according to them and nothing they can do.
 


pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,279
Jonesy said:
Just spoken to Building Control and Planning Dept at the council and a neighbours boiler flue is not something that's considered as part of either process.

It is a civil matter according to them and nothing they can do.
Click to expand...

Hmm, you may potentially be a bit screwed then.

It may come down to the fact you that didn’t raise an objection prior to the work starting. I think that if the council were notified, then you should have been too, even though it was permitted development. If so, and you didn’t say “what about my flue”, then that may be you effectively saying you are happy with the extension. A tricky situation given you don’t know about flues.

Like I said I am no expert though so take what I say with a large handful of salt.
 


J

Jonesy

New member
Aug 7, 2011
75
pb21 said:
Hmm, you may potentially be a bit screwed then.

It may come down to the fact you that didn’t raise an objection prior to the work starting. I think that if the council were notified, then you should have been too, even though it was permitted development. If so, and you didn’t say “what about my flue”, then that may be you effectively saying you are happy with the extension. A tricky situation given you don’t know about flues.

Like I said I am no expert though so take what I say with a large handful of salt.
Click to expand...

The annoying this is I remember being consulted and at the time had no issues. I didn't even consider that it would affect the Flue. My naivety plus I suspect a bit of a gung ho attitude from the guy building it end up in me needing a new boiler. Not good.
 


R

Rowdey

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
2,536
Herne Hill
Jonesy said:
View attachment 101797
Click to expand...

Sake.. roofers/builders are absolute ***** on this sort of thing.. :rolleyes:

Gas engineer done the right thing - Not only unfortunately for you, but for him too, as pointed out above.

Boiler - It's balanced flue, so no 'plume management kit' can be added, and anyway even then a new boiler in that position the flue fails.

Either extension moves or boiler flue position moves..

The Myson flue could go sideways out if you could get one (new) or chuck a cheap heat only boiler in.
 




SIMMO SAYS

SIMMO SAYS

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2012
11,712
Incommunicado
Having seen the photos your boiler is ancient - I was fitting boilers like that over thirty years ago!
The only way out of this is a new boiler with a fanned flue.
You keep your original cylinder/tanks - upgrade controls.
Boiler cost depending on make under £1000 + fitting.
 


pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,279
Jonesy said:
The annoying this is I remember being consulted and at the time had no issues. I didn't even consider that it would affect the Flue. My naivety plus I suspect a bit of a gung ho attitude from the guy building it end up in me needing a new boiler. Not good.
Click to expand...

I have to say I find it surprising that that this can happen. Potentially you could have died because you aren’t a boiler/flue expert.

I would have thought that there should be something in place, in the planning/approval process, to prevent any development, permitted or otherwise, that puts people lives at risk. It seems to place the onus on the person who is being put at risk (whether they know it or not), rather than the person who is introducing the risk, to highlight, which doesn’t seem right.

If you want to build something it should be your responsibility to ensure it is safe IMO, both for you and others.
 


J

Jonesy

New member
Aug 7, 2011
75
pb21 said:
I have to say I find it surprising that that this can happen. Potentially you could have died because you aren’t a boiler/flue expert.

I would have thought that there should be something in place, in the planning/approval process, to prevent any development, permitted or otherwise, that puts people lives at risk. It seems to place the onus on the person who is being put at risk (whether they know it or not), rather than the person who is introducing the risk, to highlight, which doesn’t seem right.

If you want to build something it should be your responsibility to ensure it is safe IMO, both for you and others.
Click to expand...

The building control dept said that it was the original installers fault for assuming that there would never be an extension built next door. I replied that that may be the case but it still should be wrong to create a dangerous situation regardless. They should have engaged us to move the flue prior to construction.

i would've been livid if it had killed me
 




J

Jonesy

New member
Aug 7, 2011
75
SIMMO SAYS said:
Having seen the photos your boiler is ancient - I was fitting boilers like that over thirty years ago!
The only way out of this is a new boiler with a fanned flue.
You keep your original cylinder/tanks - upgrade controls.
Boiler cost depending on make under £1000 + fitting.
Click to expand...

Think thats what we'll do. It seems like money for nothing but not worth messing up our whole house move over
 




sydney

sydney

tinky ****in winky
Jul 11, 2003
17,750
town full of eejits
Jonesy said:
The building control dept said that it was the original installers fault for assuming that there would never be an extension built next door. I replied that that may be the case but it still should be wrong to create a dangerous situation regardless. They should have engaged us to move the flue prior to construction.

i would've been livid if it had killed me
Click to expand...

so what if it's a little old lady without the means to pay for a boiler upgrade......is she just supposed to freeze for the winter .....can't help wondering if this would happen in Germany......ffs......!!
 




happypig

happypig

Staring at the rude boys
May 23, 2009
7,955
Eastbourne
sydney said:
so what if it's a little old lady without the means to pay for a boiler upgrade......is she just supposed to freeze for the winter .....can't help wondering if this would happen in Germany......ffs......!!
Click to expand...

No, it wouldn't. The Germans have no history whatsoever of going beyond thier own borders
 


Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,763
Hove
SIMMO SAYS said:
Get a quote from Pavilion Plumbing + Heating - Charlie Humphries - Albion Fan.
He has fitted all of our boilers for many years.
Click to expand...

He's just fitted my new boiler, new CH and UFH. Charlie, Chris and Harry are a great team, very approachable, competitive and knowledgable. Recommended from me too.
 






Brok

Brok

😐
Dec 26, 2011
4,328
Jonesy said:
The building control dept said that it was the original installers fault for assuming that there would never be an extension built next door. I replied that that may be the case but it still should be wrong to create a dangerous situation regardless. They should have engaged us to move the flue prior to construction.

i would've been livid if it had killed me
Click to expand...

Yep, the last thing you want is to wake up dead one morning because of poor planning by your neighbour.
 


Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,763
Hove
Jonesy said:
Just spoken to Building Control and Planning Dept at the council and a neighbours boiler flue is not something that's considered as part of either process.

It is a civil matter according to them and nothing they can do.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised by this, not the civil matter because it probably is, but more that the extension must be notifiable to Building Control, and therefore at the time of inspecting the foundations the Building Control Officer would be duty bound to point out the issue with the flue.

In discussions with the neighbour you could look for a financial contribution because your flue is probably a 'Prescribed Easement' under the Prescription Act given the time its been there https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ce-guide-52-easements-claimed-by-prescription although proving that would be more expensive than the new boiler, but it would be a point of discussion that the neighbour has a duty to the easements you enjoy. In view of that, and if they stubbornly refuse to engage with you, you could say that you'll get the HSE in which will cause the builders a whole deal of panic if they haven't submitted their F10 notification for the works, because many don't realise under the new CDM 2015 even small jobs are notifiable if more than 1 contractor works on it - i.e any trade or subcontractor not employed by the contractor is considered another contractor. The HSE could close the site if they deemed it unsafe or until they receive the necessary paperwork.

You then have the Party Wall Act to wave at them, and given the proximity to your property you should have been served a notice and then a Party Wall Agreement in place. Under the Act you could take out an injunction and halt works given they've started without agreement, or at least suggest that is the legal advice you're taking.

I guess that is all getting a bit confrontational, but might result in an acceptable contribution to the disruption their lack of planning has caused you.
 


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