[Albion] Boxing Day v Arsenal, trains.

I that they could have presented a strong case to the police for them to refuse to allow it to take place thus taking all control away from Sky.


I may be wrong but I do not think that many supporters would have objected.to them doing that.

The Large One said:

Given that the club have no say in the moving of the fixture, what else could or should they have done?

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I'm not sure I agree, surely the club and authorities(police and transport) can make some sort of presentation to the league that both the date and especially the time of the fixture are creating a logistical nightmare.
Yes, all credit to the club and bus companies for trying to make the best of a bad job, however it really is a position that we shouldn't find ourselves in.
I have stated on this thread earlier that we can't play at home when it's Pride on the recommendation of the police and therefore can't see why this is any different.

Arkwright said:

I'm not sure I agree, surely the club and authorities(police and transport) can make some sort of presentation to the league that both the date and especially the time of the fixture are creating a logistical nightmare.
Yes, all credit to the club and bus companies for trying to make the best of a bad job, however it really is a position that we shouldn't find ourselves in.
I have stated on this thread earlier that we can't play at home when it's Pride on the recommendation of the police and therefore can't see why this is any different.

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I agree 100%

But do the police not have the final say and as such could have foreseen the problem and dug their heels in and said YOU WILL NOT PLAY IT THEN.

pastafarian said:

People that coped with christmas day fixtures all those years ago must be wondering what the fuss is all about

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Maybe they coped by catching the train:

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2015/12/24/when-the-trains-ran-on-christmas-day/

On Christmas Day, the land falls silent as the trains, tubes and buses largely shut-down for a well-earned break. However, when the railways were younger, the motor car didn’t exist, and the Christmas holidays lasted just one day, trains were commonplace on Christmas Day itself.

The notion of the country shutting down, is an oddly modern phenomena, and in our modern frantic lives, a very welcome one.

For example, December 1862:

South Eastern Railway ran a Sunday service, as did the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway, with the addition of a fast service at 7am from London to Brighton.

The Great Northern Railway not only ran a Sunday service, but return tickets sold from the 20th Dec could be used on any day for the return trip up to the 27th Dec.

The London and North-Western ran a Sunday service, with extra trains in the morning from Euston. Likewise, the South-Western Railway had additional trains departing from Waterloo in the morning.

By 1901, the newspapers were reporting that railway companies would keep ticket halls open late on Christmas Eve so people could buy advance tickets, which may suggest that the rot had started, as trains were running Sunday services, but maybe the ticket offices were closed.

Exactly 80 years ago, travel on Christmas Day was such a staple of the railway services that they sold special gift tickets that could be given to relatives who might want to visit you.

London Underground was no exception, and an example can be found in 1941, when it was announced that there would be early workmen’s trains on Christmas Day, with a normal Sunday service for the rest of the day. London’s buses were also out, although services would run down at around 4pm. Trams and trolley cars would work throughout the night, as normal.

When did it all change?

Curbs to Christmas Day services started in the mid 1950s, but in 1961, in an effort to cut losses at British Rail, wide scale cancellations of services on Christmas Day were planned. Mostly on local services as the stations would be shut. Some long distance services between larger towns were retained, but running less often as usual.

A British Rail spokesman told The Times that it would be no real hardship as extra services would run on the 24th and 26th instead.

The other people to lose out though were also the railway staff who had pocketed a handsome bonus for Christmas Day working. But not any more.

Over the next few years, Christmas Day services dwindled, and by 1965, the now regular routine of the railway shut-down on Christmas Day was nearly complete.

In fact, in 1965, not only were there hardly any trains on Christmas Day, but the now traditional reduced service was also in effect on Boxing Day.

However, the London Underground was bucking the trend, and still running tube trains and buses on Christmas Day — although understandably, with a less intensive service than usual.

Scotland was also a slight exception, holding on to Christmas Day trains for about a decade longer.

By 1979, the only trains running on Christmas Day was a local service in Glasgow. The rest of the country was shut for the day.

And that was the last time that trains ran on Christmas Day — in 1981, trains also closed on Boxing Day as well, although that was a short lived aberration, and we usually have a Sunday style service on the day people rush to go bargain hunting in the shops.

But of course, the passengers loss is the engineers gain, as passenger trains wont run, but plenty of engineering and freight trains will be running on Christmas Day, as the railways take the opportunity to undertake major engineering works that couldn’t be done on any other day.

I dont think that anybody is criticising the railways for not running perhaps if they are running some services they should run them to suit travellers. I think the main criticism is on Sky and the club for changing the fixture and the authorities for allowing Sky to dictate and change kick off times to suit themselves and nobody else. Perhaps a complete shut down of football from 23rd Dec to 2nd January is the answer.

HantsSeagull said:

like you ever catch the train...

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Southampton,Fulham & Spurs I caught the train?? Leicester I will be catching the train!

BensGrandad said:

Perhaps a complete shut down of football from 23rd Dec to 2nd January is the answer.

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I love Boxing Day fixtures - it's my favourite game of the season. I love getting out in the fresh air after a day of stuffing myself. I've only missed a couple of home BD games in nearly 50 years of going to the Albion. And, if I can get to them, I get to any away ones too.

New Year's Day ones are often good too - although quite a few have been viewed through a hangover.

You may not like holiday fixtures but they're very popular with fans, clubs often get their highest attendances for these games (although that could be because so many are local derbies).

BensGrandad said:

I dont think that anybody is criticising the railways for not running perhaps if they are running some services they should run them to suit travellers. I think the main criticism is on Sky and the club for changing the fixture and the authorities for allowing Sky to dictate and change kick off times to suit themselves and nobody else. Perhaps a complete shut down of football from 23rd Dec to 2nd January is the answer.

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pretty clear from many comments some are. and moving the game to 5:30 is neither here nor there for the travel situation.

BensGrandad said:

Neither is acceptable in our situation as regards the public transport criteria as part of our licence.

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It’s a planning condition rather than a license. Trains not running is not the fault of the club and therefore not a breach of the planning condition I wouldn’t have thought.

beorhthelm said:

pretty clear from many comments some are. and moving the game to 5:30 is neither here nor there for the travel situation.

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Agreed. Brighton/Falmer/Lewes shuttle should ideally be put on as a minimum......could be that engineering work is preventing this I guess rather than just a commercial decision by Southern.

BensGrandad said:

I dont think that anybody is criticising the railways for not running perhaps if they are running some services they should run them to suit travellers. I think the main criticism is on Sky and the club for changing the fixture and the authorities for allowing Sky to dictate and change kick off times to suit themselves and nobody else. Perhaps a complete shut down of football from 23rd Dec to 2nd January is the answer.

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You mean from you?

BensGrandad said:

At the end of the day the police could intervene and say it is not practical to play it at 5,.30 so No you are not going to. They have more power than Sky surely taking into account safety etc..

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Do you think it right that Plod should be able to object to events because they will be 'a bit difficult', or do you tghink that they should do the job that they are paid to do. Public duty and servants and all that.

Arkwright said:

I'm not sure I agree, surely the club and authorities(police and transport) can make some sort of presentation to the league that both the date and especially the time of the fixture are creating a logistical nightmare.
Yes, all credit to the club and bus companies for trying to make the best of a bad job, however it really is a position that we shouldn't find ourselves in.

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Question: can the club put the game on safely? Answer: Yes. Therefore, it goes ahead. It is a logistical nightmare, but one which is largely mitigated by alternative arrangements. Not ideal, but if the game can be put on safely, it goes ahead. Anything else is white noise.

Arkwright said:

I have stated on this thread earlier that we can't play at home when it's Pride on the recommendation of the police and therefore can't see why this is any different.

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There is absolutely no comparison between a Boxing Day match and Pride. The latter takes up the entire city's resources for a whole weekend, when a crowd the same size as - if not bigger than - the entire population of Brighton & Hove descends on the city for 72 hours' hard partying.

BensGrandad said:

I agree 100%

But do the police not have the final say and as such could have foreseen the problem and dug their heels in and said YOU WILL NOT PLAY IT THEN.

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As I've said more than once on here, though you've chosen to ignore it - the SAG, of which the police are a part - look at the circumstances. Digging your heels in just because you want them to won't amount to anything.

Chicken Run said:

Southampton,Fulham & Spurs I caught the train?? Leicester I will be catching the train!

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hmmm - back to Boxing Day....lift?

BG has said boxing days are tradition and he goes or at least has gone in the past. He then says we should have a break between xmas and new year forgetting that this breaks tradition. Oh yeah, I forgot, his brother can't make this boxing day so we have to change tradition... [emoji23]

Birdie Boy said:

BG has said boxing days are tradition and he goes or at least has gone in the past. He then says we should have a break between xmas and new year forgetting that this breaks tradition. Oh yeah, I forgot, his brother can't make this boxing day so we have to change tradition... [emoji23]

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The big teams in The Premier, who call the tune, have wanted a winter break for some time and transport problems to games over the holiday period will give them more ammunition to enforce this. Lets be clear I love Boxing Day fixtures with a 3 pm kick off and dont want any changes.

BensGrandad said:

The big teams in The Premier, who call the tune, have wanted a winter break for some time and transport problems to games over the holiday period will give them more ammunition to enforce this. Lets be clear I love Boxing Day fixtures with a 3 pm kick off and dont want any changes.

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I guess as you get older accepting any changes in life becomes problematic

LamieRobertson said:

I guess as you get older accepting any changes in life becomes problematic

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That is probably the answer

BensGrandad said:

That is probably the answer

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I should add BG that it wasn't a comment made at you specifically or meant as a criticism

BensGrandad said:

The big teams in The Premier, who call the tune, have wanted a winter break for some time and transport problems to games over the holiday period will give them more ammunition to enforce this. Lets be clear I love Boxing Day fixtures with a 3 pm kick off and dont want any changes.

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Not read the whole thread so apologies if already mentioned but there is a mid season break next year but it will be in February.