[Politics] Does earning £50k a year make you 'rich'

BLOCK F · Oct 31, 2018

I was fortunate enough to retire at 55, mainly due to the fact that I was a director of a business that was sold a number of years previously. This gave me the dosh to pay off my mortgage just before I was 50 and I was able to invest a reasonable amount in the stockmarket that now provides me with an income via dividends and through a SIPP.I also get the state pension. My wife, who is a bit younger than me ,runs her own business and works part-time.

We are comfortably off, but I don't consider that we are rich. We do have nice cars and have been able to spend money on the house and garden and lob our daughter and son-in-law to be, a fair sum towards their first house.

However, we are careful with our dosh and live un unextravagant life. We rarely go out to eat and don't even have takeaways! We enjoy decent hotels when we go away, but that is usually for less than 2 weeks a year, and we haven't been abroad on holiday for almost 30 years. My relative lack of mobility is one reason for this. Quite willing for my other half to go and give me some peace, though!

Over the years , I have seen a number of people living way over their means and more often than not it has ended in tears. We were never like that, but it does mean we can have a comfortable lifestyle in our later years.

Rich, no; but comfortably off compared to many others,yes, and fortunate, yes.

Perhaps it is fair to say that amongst the posters on here, some are wealthier than others, but that does not necessarily mean they are rich.
It is all relative and I don't suppose a Prem footballer would get out of bed for a weekly wage of what many on here earn in a year!

nicko31 · Oct 31, 2018

Titanic said:
Earning £50k a year puts you in the top 11% of taxpayers in the UK (based on 2015-16 figures which were the latest I could find).

The top 2% earn over £100k.

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax

So the Tories handed £860 in the budget to the richest 10% that we can't really afford, what's more they probably mostly vote Tory anyway. Now that's smart...

As far £50k making you rich, certainly not in the SE, but if you live in Burnley that's the damned good salary

nwgull · Oct 31, 2018

Scunner said:
Generally anyone who is PAYE is not rich. Wealth is derived from property or business equity and not income.

Salaried income services debt, usually. Most business owners take a relatively small salary and top up income via lower tax dividends.

This is why Labour's plan to increase tax on PAYE employees is so flawed, and will lead to a lower tax yield for the Exchequer because higher earning PAYE employees will seek ways to divert income.

If Labour increase PAYE taxes, then they'll almost certainly increase the corresponding dividend tax as well. Likewise, any reduction in tax band thresholds will apply to all declared income, not just salary.

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 31, 2018

nicko31 said:
As far £50k making you rich, certainly not in the SE, but if you live in Burnley that's the damned good salary

If you earn 50k a year in Burnley you’re clearly up to no good.

CheeseRolls · Oct 31, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
Jaw dropping? The UK is well behind in health expenditure and the primary reason the NHS is the way it is. In Germany health is 10% of GDP and Germany has long had the most restriction-free and consumer-oriented healthcare system in Europe. Patients are allowed to seek almost any type of care they wish whenever they want it. I never have to wait for anything here and you can slot anything in at a date of your choice. This comes at a price though, your public contribution will be 15.5%, 7.3% of which is covered by the employer. But you will not have to flog my home to pay for health care when you’re old. Preston’s comments have no context

So, to answer your questions in order:
From my pay packet
All of us, I measure society on its ability and will to help the less fortunate.
No, that’s selfish.

The Mother Theresa of Berlin has spoken - we are not worthy.

Weststander · Oct 31, 2018

Scunner said:
Generally anyone who is PAYE is not rich. Wealth is derived from property or business equity and not income.

Salaried income services debt, usually. Most business owners take a relatively small salary and top up income via lower tax dividends.

This is why Labour's plan to increase tax on PAYE employees is so flawed, and will lead to a lower tax yield for the Exchequer because higher earning PAYE employees will seek ways to divert income.

True about high tax rates, total tax yield can decrease. Which is not helped by several key tax rate thresholds, currently £11,850, £46,350, £100,000, £123,700 and £150,000, plus NIC thresholds. Large numbers of taxpayers arrange their affairs, by completely legitimate or by crooked means, to avoid entering the next band above. A single (higher) tax rate, with a high personal allowance would at a stroke end all that.

Munkfish · Oct 31, 2018

Gwylan said:
I don't know about that. If were single I'd consider myself well-off on 40k let alone 50k. I'd probably trade by house for a flat and give myself about two grand spending money every month.

Try renting in brighton and saving to by a house. Obviously Im luckier than others but Im far from rich.

Weststander · Oct 31, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
If you earn 50k a year in Burnley you’re clearly up to no good.

Never did trust A.Barnes.

Albion Dan · Oct 31, 2018

Living in London I'm frankly astounded people survive at all on less than £50k pa. The take home on that alone just about covers my mortgage and bills.

Seagull85 · Oct 31, 2018

I have a view on both sides of this one;

I'm married, 1 kid and live in Cornwall, I earn around 25k a year and for the area, we live well, 4 bed detached house, 2 cars and able to eat out etc - not rich but we're ok.

My brother is married, no kids lives in Sussex but earns around 80k, again nice house but is only able to live a similar lifestyle to me.

On paper, we should live a hugely different life but because of regional living costs, it doesn't work out like that...

Trufflehound · Oct 31, 2018

Commander said:
The majority of people who have voted in this poll earn more than £50K.

Knowing NSC, it's also possible that the majority of voters haven't grasped the concept of the 'greater than' and 'less than' symbols...

mejonaNO12 aka riskit · Oct 31, 2018

Off topic, If ever you're struggling for money, cutting all costs where possible, continually stressed about it.....do NOT watch 'Eat well for Less" on BBC1. Unbelievable stuff.

You have couples 'desperate' to get help to cut their food bills. "We're spending £600 a week" they'll say.

In walks twatto Greg Wallace who gives them AMAZING advice like, "Rather than spending that £100 a week on takeaways, why don't you make an omelette".

Cut to FATTY Mum eating the eggy treat and declaring "WOW. It's REALLY tasty. I would NEVER have thought to have done this".

They usually save THOUSANDS a year through that and switching to own brand and then say "Oh, that's nice".

I lived on £10 a week in my final year at Uni. I was sent food by my parents and used to go to Asda early in the morning to get the cheapest food. Yes, it's because I spent most my money on drink but it makes my blood BOIL.

DarrenFreemansPerm · Oct 31, 2018

mejonaNO12 aka riskit said:
Off topic, If ever you're struggling for money, cutting all costs where possible, continually stressed about it.....do NOT watch 'Eat well for Less" on BBC1. Unbelievable stuff.

You have couples 'desperate' to get help to cut their food bills. "We're spending £600 a week" they'll say.

In walks twatto Greg Wallace who gives them AMAZING advice like, "Rather than spending that £100 a week on takeaways, why don't you make an omelette".

Cut to FATTY Mum eating the eggy treat and declaring "WOW. It's REALLY tasty. I would NEVER have thought to have done this".

They usually save THOUSANDS a year through that and switching to own brand and then say "Oh, that's nice".

I lived on £10 a week in my final year at Uni. I was sent food by my parents and used to go to Asda early in the morning to get the cheapest food. Yes, it's because I spent most my money on drink but it makes my blood BOIL.

I’ll confess, this show is a dirty little secret of mine. I’m always fascinated by these people who are haemorrhaging money on food and seemingly can’t figure out why as they believe £300 a week is normal for the groceries :lol:

zefarelly · Oct 31, 2018

Choice of home and location make a huge difference, we looked briefly at moving a few years back and thought why? We're Ina great location and don't need a bigger house. . . All being well we'll be mortgage free in our mid. 50's That's where our concentration of investment ( and a few classic cars) has been . . . .and despite over 50k income we're always cash poor!

If I'm lucky, and still fit, I should feel 'rich by the time I'm 60.

It still amazes me to see new flash cars on the old council estates, some people can't resist status symbols, and they're probably on tick against the house anyway!

sully said:
I was probably rich for a while at the end of the last decade, while my wife was equalling my salary and we lived in a small house in Hanover.

We moved out of town to give the kids a bedroom each and soon after took a hit on total household income of nearly 50%.

I’m certainly not rich now, but manage to hold on to a few luxuries whilst paying an eye-watering mortgage that runs until I’m 70 and trying to get my wife’s business profitable.

It’s all about circumstances.

When I’m 70, I’ll probably feel rich again, though I might not be able to enjoy it as much as I did 10 years ago!

I also see so many houses that are so far out of my reach that I can’t understand how I can be in the top 10% of earners. Who can all these people be who own houses worth double what mine is (and more)?

nwgull · Oct 31, 2018

Weststander said:
True about high tax rates, total tax yield can decrease. Which is not helped by several key tax rate thresholds, currently £11,850, £46,350, £100,000, £123,700 and £150,000, plus NIC thresholds. Large numbers of taxpayers arrange their affairs, by completely legitimate or by crooked means, to avoid entering the next band above. A single (higher) tax rate, with a high personal allowance would at a stroke end all that.

The current £100,00 - £127,300 band where you pay 60% is the most nonsensical. Why not just increase tax to 45% at 100K and be done with it?

PoG · Oct 31, 2018

Trufflehound said:
Knowing NSC, it's also possible that the majority of voters haven't grasped the concept of the 'greater than' and 'less than' symbols...

Admittedly I believe got this wrong when voting. Embarrassing really considering I'm a software developer and I use them regularly.

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 31, 2018

CheeseRolls said:
we are not worthy.

Did you mean to say “I am a Tory?”

Scunner · Oct 31, 2018

There's no threshold at £123,700? In my case, if Commie McDonnell ever gets in no 11, several things will happen: 1) I will move to self-employed contractor status if I can 2) I will divert above threshold income into pension contributions 3) I will diversify my income streams into multiple below threshold levels, including diverting to the other half 3) I will ensure work related assets - car, office, tech become tax deductible rather than a benefit in kind.

People earning over £80k pay a wildly disproportionate amount of the total yield per capita and also happen to be the most mobile and can work from home - thus tax deductible - or abroad.

Given that we are already at the tipping point - around 45% of total PAYE income for higher earners goes back to the exchequer - where the above behaviours start to occur, any increase will be counter productive.

CheeseRolls · Oct 31, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
Did you mean to say “I am a Tory?”

I don't think so, but when the current lot stop fighting and come even close to agreeing what they DO stand for, I may come back to you.

nwgull · Oct 31, 2018

Scunner said:
There's no threshold at £123,700? In my case, if Commie McDonnell ever gets in no 11, several things will happen: 1) I will move to self-employed contractor status if I can 2) I will divert above threshold income into pension contributions 3) I will diversify my income streams into multiple below threshold levels, including diverting to the other half 3) I will ensure work related assets - car, office, tech become tax deductible rather than a benefit in kind.

People earning over £80k pay a wildly disproportionate amount of the total yield per capita and also happen to be the most mobile and can work from home - thus tax deductible - or abroad.

Given that we are already at the tipping point - around 45% of total PAYE income for higher earners goes back to the exchequer - where the above behaviours start to occur, any increase will be counter productive.

There is a threshold at £123,700; you currently pay 60% tax between 100-123.7K and 40 percent beyond that up to 150K. at which point you pay 45%.

As for self-employed status, I can't imagine Labour being any more friendly than the conservatives about this if you only work for one client.

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Does earning £50k per year make you 'rich'

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