[Albion] Albion fans’ gripes

drew said:

There are however financial restrictions in place that apply to all clubs. We of course have no idea how much TB is worth!

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Yes but... the Wolves model is quite interesting. Whilst they may not be able to flex their financial clout directly they are quite obviously doing it other ways.

They've invested in an agency, one that is working quite nicely for them.

In terms of other models of ownership, I've just posted on another thread the similarity between the recently deceased Leicester owner and ours.

They've both recently invested in "seen better days" Belgium clubs. There is a country quite obviously capable of producing great players but with a number of clubs requiring a hand up.

I knew Nigel Pearson has surfaced out there, but I didn't realise he was employed by his ex-boss.

The great thing about football is there can be beauty in a backs against the wall 1-0. Context is everything. Chris is doing a brilliant job

I came out of Hereford and vowed I would never moan again as things could not get any worse and the only way is up. I only moan about the fans who whinge as many people have stated, we have not had it so good. Ok I did moan about Barnes!


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The club has come a million miles in the last 20 years to a position none of us could have dreamed about. So perspective is very important.

As long as the club isn’t aiming at standing still I’m happy. That is a recipe for failure - as if the Albion can go no further. At the moment I’m coming away happy we’ve won 1-0 on the basis we are still feeling our way in the PL and our primary goal is to avoid relegation.

But I still want us to get better and go to matches with an expectation we are actually competing to win something. This will come with time I know but I would be disappointed if didn’t happen at some point.

So I can understand those who complain to a degree. I just think it’s a bit early. I’m still in the “loving we are here” stage but it won’t last forever.


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el punal said:

Which one are you?

1. I’d rather win 1-0, keep a clean sheet, 3 more points on the board and bollocks whether we deserved it or not.

or

2. I prefer that we lost 4-3 in a jolly exciting and entertaining game, full of incidents and drama and no little skill. Oh well, better luck next time. Still, much better than a boring 1-0 win with only one shot on target.

Many on the Wolves fans forum much preferred the expansive, attacking play to our “dull, negative” approach. Fair enough. But we got the 3 points and they didn’t. Had the reverse scenario happened I wonder whether their opinion would have changed?

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So why were they so pissed off losing then!?

Tokyohands said:

So why were they so pissed off losing then!?

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Firstly, we got the three points and they didn’t. Secondly, they thought they’d played the better football and deserved the three points. Thirdly, no fans like to see their team lose whatever the circumstances. Fourthly, sour grapes.

Exactly! That's what made me laugh about reading all their comments coupled with "but we'd rather lose than play like Brighton did" eeeeerrrrrrrm obviously not, it's a feckin stupid thing to say.

I think there are a lot disingenuous people on here who want to confuse aspiration to play better with moaning and confuse people making observations about a players performance as being 'haters'.

We are 2 years into our PL life it was never going to be pretty in that time but I would like it pretty at some point and whats wrong with that?.

Wardy's twin said:

I think there are a lot disingenuous people on here who want to confuse aspiration to play better with moaning and confuse people making observations about a players performance as being 'haters'.

We are 2 years into our PL life it was never going to be pretty in that time but I would like it pretty at some point and whats wrong with that?.

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This.

Wardy's twin said:

I think there are a lot disingenuous people on here who want to confuse aspiration to play better with moaning and confuse people making observations about a players performance as being 'haters'.

We are 2 years into our PL life it was never going to be pretty in that time but I would like it pretty at some point and whats wrong with that?.

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I think the main issue is with the continual undermining of our manager and their staff that it is down to them, and rather than just a criticism of a performance, it is going a lot deeper, and that is the same about individual players too. I don't think anyone could argue we weren't great Saturday, or that anyone doesn't what to aspire to more exciting matches, or that CH and his team could have done things differently, but this undercurrent that is seeping into the consciousness that he is too negative is what is disingenuous imho, and couldn't be anymore negative or destructive by seeping into people's mindsets.

Bold Seagull said:

I think the main issue is with the continual undermining of our manager and their staff that it is down to them, and rather than just a criticism of a performance, it is going a lot deeper, and that is the same about individual players too. I don't think anyone could argue we weren't great Saturday, or that anyone doesn't what to aspire to more exciting matches, or that CH and his team could have done things differently, but this undercurrent that is seeping into the consciousness that he is too negative is what is disingenuous imho, and couldn't be anymore negative or destructive by seeping into people's mindsets.

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To be honest I think your comments only apply to a few. They’ll be the same bunch that will moan about anything or everything that doesn’t suit their agenda. Most die hard, dyed in the wool Albion fans are eternally grateful for where we are in the Premier League, and grateful to Tony Bloom and Chris Hughton for getting us there. As many of us have said, this is still a new experience for both the club and the fans - let’s just enjoy it without the needless sniping.

As many have said, those of us who have followed the Albion through the most turbulent part of it's history will undoubtedly be in the minority of griping fans. The journey that we are on is likely to be one of the, if not THE most endearing & incredible stories in the world of football.

- In the late 90's we almost lost our Club - we survived.

- We were forced to move to Gillingham - then triumphantly returned to Brighton.

- We gradually became competitive on the pitch and signed players for modest fees.

- We fought for planning consent for a permanent home - and won.

- We punched above our weight at Withdean, and against the odds, spent a couple of seasons in the second tier of English football.

- Tony Bloom stepped forwards to fund the construction of our magnificent stadium and latterly a state of the art training facility.

- The BHAFC brand has grown, the business is managed by professionals who present a positive image for the club.

- We have appointed a managers who is as respectful as he is respected and is taking us steadily forwards on the pitch.

- We have taken our place in the Premier League and have shown that we can be a match for the best in the country.

- We survived our first season in the Premier League when many made us favourites for the drop.

- Million of pounds have been spent on new signings.

Since that day at Hereford, I can only see steady progress. Yes it has been painfully slow at times, but the highs certainly outweigh the lows. Yes there have been times that a few grumbles along the way have been valid, but overall there is very little to complain about in my opinion.

As for the future, further steady progress could see us finish in the top PL 10, win a major piece of silverware (League Cup, FA Cup?), knock on the door of European football? Who knows.

It's not been an easy journey, but right now I'm enjoying every minute of it.

Away at Macclesfield or Man U on a cold, wet afternoon? I know which I'd prefer...

Bold Seagull said:

I think the main issue is with the continual undermining of our manager and their staff that it is down to them, and rather than just a criticism of a performance, it is going a lot deeper, and that is the same about individual players too. I don't think anyone could argue we weren't great Saturday, or that anyone doesn't what to aspire to more exciting matches, or that CH and his team could have done things differently, but this undercurrent that is seeping into the consciousness that he is too negative is what is disingenuous imho, and couldn't be anymore negative or destructive by seeping into people's mindsets.

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what ??

When he was appointed we were told, primarily by Norwich fans, that we would need to learn to love boring, negative, defensive football.

Last season I was laughing at those Norwich fans. Now I'm beginning to see what they meant. We have a far better squad this season with more quality in depth, and yet we are playing nowhere near as well.

Letting away sides at the Amex (with the exception of top four) have all the territory and possession to the extent that they have 25 attempts on goal is not good. Our luck will only hold for so long. If Wolves had a forward worthy of the name I very much doubt that we would have got anything out of Saturday at all.

Of course I'm happy with the three points, and I'm not that bothered about performance to earn the three points. What does worry me is that we now seem incapable of retaining possession and passing to each other. We seem to have gone backwards this season and I do find that worrying.

rippleman said:

When he was appointed we were told, primarily by Norwich fans, that we would need to learn to love boring, negative, defensive football.

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Oh Yeah like they know, whats good for them is that the same Norwich fans that saw this.....

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So boring, I hated they way we sat back after we took the lead.

We play to our strengths, When CH feels we have the players and is confident that is what we do counter attack and very well, you don't get three wins on the bounce in this league unless you have qualities that count & that includes defence.

drew said:

Depends what you think you want for your support. Some are just happy to be in the PL and don't care what goes on on the pitch so long as we just about survive each year. Others pay their money because they want to be entertained.

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You're the prick with the Hughton Out thread a few weeks back, eh?
How you feeling now?

Burnley got European football by grinding out 1-0 wins last season.

Just saying.

Bold Seagull said:

It's not an on/off switch though is it. Hughton hasn't switched a button for the ManUtd game, then switched it back for the Wolves one. He has 11 human beings on the pitch, that collectively can be greater than the sum of their parts, or through no apparent rhyme nor reason can be less.

I don't think the issue is with anyone wanting a more entertaining convincing attacking style of display, I think the issue is people thinking this is a conscious decision, that the manager and management team are behind it and wanted us to be dominated and outplayed, and had Hughton simply waved his team forward, they would have put Wolves to the sword.

At an amateur level I had some different managers, those that sent you out with tactics in mind, but let you get on with it out on the pitch knowing you were responding to what was happening, 'game management' as Chris often likes to quote. Then you had the managers that barked every instruction for every second of the game trying to micro manage you. It's pretty clear to me Chris trusts his team to develop into a game. I didn't think we set up to defend on Saturday, I thought Wolves shape and out numbering us out wide caused us so many problems that once AJ and Izzy were forced to defend, we had no outlet and simply couldn't keep the ball. I also thought is was clear that after HT, there was a change in tactics, Stephens and Kayal both covered wider and our wingers got forward. It was only a 15min spell of so, but we had them on the back foot, and arguably should have got a second.

Had we had a bit more quality in those opening minutes and got in behind Wolves, the whole shape of that first half could have been different and we might have got on the front foot. Too many wayward passes however, and it was hard going.

Despite all of Wolves possession and shots, I thought we had clear chances to score, and really we could and should have put it to bed with 10 to go. I think the aesthetically pleasing performance is not far away.

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All valuable points, just not really related to my point. Although I'd actually argue that the tactical change was dropping Solly a bit deeper in the second half as an out-ball but also to cover Neves and Moutinho. The issue in the first half was that, to compensate for their dominance in the wide areas, Stephens and Kayal were often pulled into wide areas unnaturally. This left Wolves an easy out ball into one of their two central midfielders who were happy to face the play and switch play quickly to overload us on the opposite side. With Solly and Murray often isolated too far forward, this meant we couldn't stop them dictating the game. In this sense, whilst I thought Solly actually played well on Saturday, we missed Gross' natural understanding of that 10 position and his ability to intelligently press both in deep zones and higher zones, and to manipulate space depending on where the team needed him to be.

Nonetheless, statistically we're becoming much more like Burnley last season. We are allowing teams on to us (which is a choice by dropping deeper and deeper and by forcing our wide men to be so deep at all times) and we're allowing them into specific zones that we clearly believe are less advantageous to them offensively. That's all fine and well, but we're currently creating the second fewest chances in the whole league and conceding one of the highest number of shots on goal and on target. Whilst things are going for us, as they have the last 3 games, that's fine. But sooner or later, conceding lots of chances and barely having any of your own will cause you issues (we can't rely on Murray to score 6 goals from every 14 shots, or whatever it is, consistently throughout a season, for example). And eventually, if you sit back, inviting pressure on as we do so readily, you get to a point where the offensive outlets that you have become harder and harder to find as our team becomes entrenched against good opposition on the edge of our own box. This just isn't sustainable if we wish to progress because most teams at this level will have enough to break through us.

The last point I'd like to debate is actually the first one you made. I think you're right to say that it's not an on/off switch to attack or not insofar as most teams set up with a specific mentality and it's hard to break from that in the middle of the game. And what's clear is that we're set up to defend well first and foremost and hope to get goals on the counter (which is much more effective now that Izzy is back). In this sense, setting the team up with a natural inclination to defend first and attack later, we end up with a team that suffers at this level because better teams can pen us in, particularly if our starting position is 10-15 yards from our own box. It's clear that these are CHs instructions (anyone pretending that he sets the team up to be offensively minded is kidding themselves) and he's obviously a naturally pragmatic coach (and he's getting good results, so as a BHA fan, I'm very happy), but I think now, and I've always thought this, that the players we have at our disposal are better footballers than the current system gives them credit for and consequently, I don't personally think we'd suffer that much from being a more front foot team i.e playing higher up the pitch, leaving key attacking players in areas where they can hurt the opposition and playing a more attractive passing style, but you're more than welcome to disagree. But that won't happen with CH here and whilst he's getting the results, I can overlook the lack of great football as I appreciate where we've come from, and I can appreciate that attacking football won't just be switched on and off when we want it.

drew said:

Is that actually a word?

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no, soz

riding the right side of lucky?

fine margins in the PL!

NUFC nearly beat MU, kinda; but they didn't, we did. one goal in it!

defence is half the game and we're rather good at it

3 1-0's on the bounce! there's like a pattern forming! a good one!

a quarter way through the season is a reasonable yardstick, you must be happy with 11th,

there looks to be more than three "basket case" clubs, and were not one of them!

TSB said:

Burnley got European football by grinding out 1-0 wins last season.

Just saying.

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Only six games ended 1-0 so by that reckoning we're half way to the Europa league!

Edit: They did have 7 1-1 draws so came close!