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[Politics] Spreadsheet Phil's Budget



D

darkwolf666

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2015
7,576
Sittingbourne, Kent
Weststander said:
Yes, I admit again that higher earners will gain more in £ from today's budget. Websites are showing a gain of £520 per year from next April for those earning over £46,350.

But it's still well worth mentioning the beneficial effect of the huge personal allowance changes. In 2010 it was £6,475, from next April £12,500. Taking 5.75m low and part time earners out of income tax altogether.

Overall, whatever pay I've been on including rubbish low pay, budgets have only ever given a few extra quid of net pay each month. Whether it be a Tory, Labour or Coalition government. I assume the reason is that there's only so much that can be done for 28 million tax payers. I'm convinced that the best way for incomes to improve for the poor and disadvantaged is for significant increases in minimum/living wage, including for younger age brackets. Half the employers out there will exploit as much as possible.
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I agree again with what you say, but still can’t see why you can’t grasp how unfair it appears to the lower paid. I understand that it will cost a lot more to benefit the majority, but please please understand how wrong it appears to be to benefit the better off at the detriment of the poorer.

Why didn’t the Chancellor give the same percentage increase, then there would have been little argument as it would have been seen to be fair and equal.
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,310
darkwolf666 said:
I agree again with what you say, but still can’t see why you can’t grasp how unfair it appears to the lower paid. I understand that it will cost a lot more to benefit the majority, but please please understand how wrong it appears to be to benefit the better off at the detriment of the poorer.

Why didn’t the Chancellor give the same percentage increase, then there would have been little argument as it would have been seen to be fair and equal.
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while it can look bad since so much attention is drawn to it, we are talking about being better off by £200 for people paying ~11k in tax and NI already. prehaps the % increase should have been the same, it looks like they simply rounded it up.

i reckon they should index link the rise to inflation and have done with it.
 


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
63,979
Withdean area
darkwolf666 said:
I agree again with what you say, but still can’t see why you can’t grasp how unfair it appears to the lower paid. I understand that it will cost a lot more to benefit the majority, but please please understand how wrong it appears to be to benefit the better off at the detriment of the poorer.

Why didn’t the Chancellor give the same percentage increase, then there would have been little argument as it would have been seen to be fair and equal.
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My opinion isn't important and I decided nowt. For what it's worth, my opinion is: the new 1.75m who were taken out of income tax altogether were significant winners, as were those earning over £46,350. I agree that those earning between £11,850 and £46,350 gained less, which is relatively "unfair".

Two things. I think it was partly a political move, in readiness for the next general election. There are 4.2m higher rate taxpayers, plus millions of aspirationals not far off that. They are by no means guaranteed Tory voters, especially after Brexit. It will be used to draw out McDonnell on his precises tax plans next time. Because for all the talk of "the rich", levels below that will have to pay significantly more tax to pay for McDonnell's plans.

Then, and I know you already understand this from your posts, today's cut for those earning over £46,350, wouldn't have made a big difference if passed on elsewhere. I'm not saying that's right, just saying.
 


D

darkwolf666

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2015
7,576
Sittingbourne, Kent
Weststander said:
My opinion isn't important and I decided nowt. For what it's worth, my opinion is: the new 1.75m who were taken out of income tax altogether were significant winners, as were those earning over £46,350. I agree that those earning between £11,850 and £46,350 gained less, which is relatively "unfair".

Two things. I think it was partly a political move, in readiness for the next general election. There are 4.2m higher rate taxpayers, plus millions of aspirationals not far off that. They are by no means guaranteed Tory voters, especially after Brexit. It will be used to draw out McDonnell on his precises tax plans next time. Because for all the talk of "the rich", levels below that will have to pay significantly more tax to pay for McDonnell's plans.

Then, and I know you already understand this from your posts, today's cut for those earning over £46,350, wouldn't have made a big difference if passed on elsewhere. I'm not saying that's right, just saying.
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Can’t argue with any of that - damn!
 






vegster

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,894
Well, that's my pay rise sorted out thanks to the increase in Personal Allowance. 2-3 more budgets and the Living Wage will have caught up with me! Then my boss will have to give me an annual pay rise! Hurrah!
 








vegster

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,894
Weststander said:
Is that because "Business isn't great just now. We'll look at again as soon as we can".?
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Indeed.. Sales expected to increase by 6% annually month on month, over the last three years sales are increasing 10-20%. This spring, a new joiner was catapulted after 2 months for not being " Exceptional " an established member of staff was sacked for " underperformance" and two more jumped before they were pushed for not being aggressive enough with sales...annual pay reviews ( ha ha) were due 1st June....
 


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,591
Gods country fortnightly
£860 extra for those on £50k, same old Tories I'm afraid. Meanwhile public services are on their knees
 


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
63,979
Withdean area
nicko31 said:
£860 extra for those on £50k, same old Tories I'm afraid. Meanwhile public services are on their knees
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With NI changes, £520 a year for a £50k earner.

IMG_2918.PNG
 




Publius Ovidius

Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
46,036
at home
Did he mention anything about salary sacrifice pension contributions?
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,310
shame, as higher rate pension relief is ripe for plucking.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,566
The Fatherland
nicko31 said:
£860 extra for those on £50k, same old Tories I'm afraid. Meanwhile public services are on their knees
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As predicted.
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747
nicko31 said:
£860 extra for those on £50k, same old Tories I'm afraid. Meanwhile public services are on their knees
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Hmm, on the plus side he didn’t restore the personal allowance for those earning over 100k.

Do you think it should be removed to those on 50k plus, so that anyone earning over 50k pays 60% tax?
 


D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
Be interested to see what the Personal allowance is in other countries before you start paying tax.
Germany is 9,000 Euros, France is 9,000 Euros from what I have seen on the Internet, obviously that will need to be confirmed. Add to this up to 30 hours free child care a week for all 3-4 year olds for both parents who work. Really can't see what there is to be angry about here.
 


D

darkwolf666

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2015
7,576
Sittingbourne, Kent
bashlsdir said:
Be interested to see what the Personal allowance is in other countries before you start paying tax.
Germany is 9,000 Euros, France is 9,000 Euros from what I have seen on the Internet, obviously that will need to be confirmed. Add to this up to 30 hours free child care a week for all 3-4 year olds for both parents who work. Really can't see what there is to be angry about here.
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Part of the problem is in your own answer. Because of the cost of living and housing/rent in the UK couples are pretty much forced to both work, hence the governments assistance with child care. However from a social point of view this has created another generation of latch key kids, where parents struggling to make ends meet have to leave kids to fend for themselves after school hours and school holidays.

We are generating problems now that will affect us for generations all in the name of greed.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,566
The Fatherland
bashlsdir said:
Be interested to see what the Personal allowance is in other countries before you start paying tax.
Germany is 9,000 Euros, France is 9,000 Euros from what I have seen on the Internet, obviously that will need to be confirmed. Add to this up to 30 hours free child care a week for all 3-4 year olds for both parents who work. Really can't see what there is to be angry about here.
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In effect it’s a lot lower than 9000 as health, I believe, doesn’t have a personal allowance... you will start paying around 7% of the 15% immediately. Health always gets left off comparisons.
 


mikeyjh

mikeyjh

Well-known member
Dec 17, 2008
4,488
Llanymawddwy
darkwolf666 said:
You have been quite selective with prices. I was talking from my own experience and can give specific examples.

The house I live in was bought for me to rent and cost £125000 in October 2012. 6 years later an identical house on the same road has sold for £235000. I would estimate of the 60 houses on my road probably 60%of them are rented as they can accommodate reasonable numbers of people (not just families).

This to me is where the problem lies - if you can’t get on the property merry go round you are shafted...
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In my defence, I was just trying to find a like for like example! I think we're talking about two different issues here - One being the problem with shortage of housing which is a real and critical issue. The other, the ability for people to buy their homes is more of an aspirational and political issue and the problem here is that one's opinion will differ according to where you are on the 'property ladder' (I hate that term SO much). At one end of the scale, if you're not on it you're hoping that prices drop significantly - At the other end (I am) mortgage free, have several properties, you're going to have a slightly different outlook. In any case, I just don't see what any government can do to materially interfere with the market, after all, that's what it is, a market where people buy and sell and prices reflect supply and demand.

For me, I'd wholeheartedly support changes to support renters that make renting affordable and gives those who require it, stability - I say that as someone that was stuffed for £10k or so buy some charlatan tenant a couple of years back....

Anyway, good luck in finding the home of your dreams!
 


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