[Politics] Spreadsheet Phil's Budget

darkwolf666 · Oct 30, 2018

mikeyjh said:
In my defence, I was just trying to find a like for like example! I think we're talking about two different issues here - One being the problem with shortage of housing which is a real and critical issue. The other, the ability for people to buy their homes is more of an aspirational and political issue and the problem here is that one's opinion will differ according to where you are on the 'property ladder' (I hate that term SO much). At one end of the scale, if you're not on it you're hoping that prices drop significantly - At the other end (I am) mortgage free, have several properties, you're going to have a slightly different outlook. In any case, I just don't see what any government can do to materially interfere with the market, after all, that's what it is, a market where people buy and sell and prices reflect supply and demand.

For me, I'd wholeheartedly support changes to support renters that make renting affordable and gives those who require it, stability - I say that as someone that was stuffed for £10k or so buy some charlatan tenant a couple of years back....

Anyway, good luck in finding the home of your dreams!

That's the problem though, a government DID interfere with the housing problem by selling off all the council houses and refusing to allow councils to build new houses.
That was the catalyst for the problems we find ourselves in now.
Not everyone wants to own their own home and as you have said previously there are advantages to renting, but there is no stability and as a tenant could be out on your ear with a couple of months notice - how can that ever be considered home?

mikeyjh · Oct 30, 2018

darkwolf666 said:
That's the problem though, a government DID interfere with the housing problem by selling off all the council houses and refusing to allow councils to build new houses.
That was the catalyst for the problems we find ourselves in now.
Not everyone wants to own their own home and as you have said previously there are advantages to renting, but there is no stability and as a tenant could be out on your ear with a couple of months notice - how can that ever be considered home?

Agree, agree, agree - It can't be right that landlords can evict on a whim. So long as they stay within the terms of the contract (and even sometimes when they don't) tenants should be able to stay as long as they wish. Unfortunately that will upset the hobby landlords who think tenants simply exist to pay their interest only mortgages and therefore current govt extremely unlikely to go down that path.

Tim Over Whelmed · Oct 30, 2018

John McDonnell on 5 Live, the increase in personal allowance doesn't help the low paid, WTF?

Even on the minimum wage as a 21 year old working say 35 hours a week you earn £7.38 x 35 x 52 = £13,432, so clearly they do!

The guys would argue if you gave him a winning lottery ticket that he now had to take it to the bank, clueless

Deleted member 22389 · Oct 30, 2018

It is what it is today. You can moan and groan all day long, things will still be the same, it's the world over. Your better off focusing your energy on how to improve your own situation, whether that's training for a new career or making some extra money and stop listening to stupid politicians who by the way are all doing OK.

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 30, 2018

bashlsdir said:
It is what it is today. You can moan and groan all day long, things will still be the same, it's the world over. Your better off focusing your energy on how to improve your own situation, whether that's training for a new career or making some extra money and stop listening to stupid politicians who by the way are all doing OK.

This is an incredibly selfish, and not to mention defeatist, attitude though....and an attitude certain politicians will want you to have. Come on, surely you are better than this?

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 30, 2018

Tim Over Whelmed said:
John McDonnell on 5 Live, the increase in personal allowance doesn't help the low paid, WTF?

Even on the minimum wage as a 21 year old working say 35 hours a week you earn £7.38 x 35 x 52 = £13,432, so clearly they do!

The guys would argue if you gave him a winning lottery ticket that he now had to take it to the bank, clueless

I imagine he’s talking about the bigger picture and real terms and costs ie it’s pointless simply raising personal allowances when they’re adding taxes and removing things elsewhere, and the cost of living is going up etc.

pb21 · Oct 30, 2018

mikeyjh said:
Agree, agree, agree - It can't be right that landlords can evict on a whim. So long as they stay within the terms of the contract (and even sometimes when they don't) tenants should be able to stay as long as they wish. Unfortunately that will upset the hobby landlords who think tenants simply exist to pay their interest only mortgages and therefore current govt extremely unlikely to go down that path.

This is one of the main problems with renting, and he rental market in general. People's homes are increasingly becoming other peoples assets, and landlords are treating them as such, without appreciating (or caring) they are also peoples homes. Throw in unscrupulous letting agents, who are essentially asset managers, and the whole thing becomes very unsettling. Having lived in rented accommodation for years, and for the majority of that living in someone's asset that couldn't feel like home, to now not being in that situation is actually a massive change.

nwgull · Oct 30, 2018

cunning fergus said:
Hmm, on the plus side he didn’t restore the personal allowance for those earning over 100k.

Do you think it should be removed to those on 50k plus, so that anyone earning over 50k pays 60% tax?

In real terms, the threshold for this effective 60% tax rate has been coming down every year since it was first introduced and set at 100K in 2010.

Tim Over Whelmed · Oct 30, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
I imagine he’s talking about the bigger picture and real terms and costs ie it’s pointless simply raising personal allowances when they’re adding taxes and removing things elsewhere, and the cost of living is going up etc.

Don't agree, raising the personal allowance directly helps people in work and impacts significantly on lower paid workers. Yes, raising taxes elsewhere isn't necessarily going to help if that impacts on them, it may not. Raising thresholds is far more effective and impactfull than lowering the % of tax paid. The increases in the minimum wage and living wage also helps.

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 30, 2018

Tim Over Whelmed said:
Don't agree, raising the personal allowance directly helps people in work and impacts significantly on lower paid workers. Yes, raising taxes elsewhere isn't necessarily going to help if that impacts on them, it may not. Raising thresholds is far more effective and impactfull than lowering the % of tax paid. The increases in the minimum wage and living wage also helps.

But surely you understand that if you have an extra £1 in your pocket due to raising personal tax threshold it’s pointiess if your rent and living costs have gone up by more?

Tim Over Whelmed · Oct 30, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
But surely you understand that if you have an extra £1 in your pocket due to raising personal tax threshold it’s pointiess if your rent and living costs have gone up by more?

Yes, I've got my head around that one.

Hence my posts yesterday about how the BTL market and AirBnB impact is forcing rents up and if it were my decision I'd change the tax structure around these two "industries", which is happening and will reduce the amount of people investing in it which should slow or reduce rent increases and property prices as more stock becomes available. The Govt is doing a lot more around house building and supporting first time buyers.

DavidinSouthampton · Oct 30, 2018

bashlsdir said:
It is what it is today. You can moan and groan all day long, things will still be the same, it's the world over. Your better off focusing your energy on how to improve your own situation, whether that's training for a new career or making some extra money and stop listening to stupid politicians who by the way are all doing OK.

Some of us have a heart for the people who don't have the time, energy, nous or capability to improve their own situation. If someone is doing three different jobs in order to survive, what chance do they have.

Publius Ovidius · Oct 30, 2018

Weststander said:
None of the threatened changes happened, yet.
https://www.moneyobserver.com/news/budget-2018-pension-tax-relief-receives-stay-execution

Good.

Lenny Rider · Oct 30, 2018

Never mind Spreadsheet Phil having watched ITV this morning, Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell has to be in the running to be the most dangerous man in Britain?

Imagine him in charge of our finances?

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 30, 2018

Tim Over Whelmed said:
Yes, I've got my head around that one.

Hence my posts yesterday about how the BTL market and AirBnB impact is forcing rents up and if it were my decision I'd change the tax structure around these two "industries", which is happening and will reduce the amount of people investing in it which should slow or reduce rent increases and property prices as more stock becomes available. The Govt is doing a lot more around house building and supporting first time buyers.

Fair point. Apologies I misunderstood.

As an aside they have put a ban on AirBnBs in Berlin now. The rules in Berlin are kind of how AirBnB was first conceived ie a way to make some occasional cash from your spare room. If you are doing this you’re fine...if you are a professional AirBnBer they’ll find you and fine you. I understand there’s a specific team within the council dealing with this and a grass hot line. I can understand the complaints as they ruin communities, push residential prices and rent up and also circumvent laws which proper guest house owners have to abide by.

Tim Over Whelmed · Oct 30, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
Fair point. Apologies I misunderstood.

As an aside they have put a ban on AirBnBs in Berlin now. The rules in Berlin are kind of how AirBnB was first conceived ie a way to make some occasional cash from your spare room. If you are doing this you’re fine...if you are a professional AirBnBer they’ll find you and fine you. I understand there’s a specific team within the council dealing with this and a grass hot line. I can understand the complaints as they ruin communities, push residential prices and rent up and also circumvent laws which proper guest house owners have to abide by.

No worries, in Docklands etc now AirBnB syndicates are buying entire blocks and have their own block management, it's investment funds and limited companies snapping up housing before the locals get a sniff!

Tim Over Whelmed · Oct 30, 2018

Lenny Rider said:
Never mind Spreadsheet Phil having watched ITV this morning, Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell has to be in the running to be the most dangerous man in Britain?

Imagine him in charge of our finances?

I wouldn't put that weasel in charge of himself let alone others!

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 30, 2018

Tim Over Whelmed said:
No worries, in Docklands etc now AirBnB syndicates are buying entire blocks and have their own block management, it's investment funds and limited companies snapping up housing before the locals get a sniff!

That’s just shit. And it’s totally in the government’s hands if they want to stop this. But they don’t....as it’s probably them or their mates in these syndicates.

cunning fergus · Oct 30, 2018

nwgull said:
In real terms, the threshold for this effective 60% tax rate has been coming down every year since it was first introduced and set at 100K in 2010.

Well in nominal terms its a 60% tax rate........

Tim Over Whelmed · Oct 30, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
That’s just shit. And it’s totally in the government’s hands if they want to stop this. But they don’t....as it’s probably them or their mates in these syndicates.

Personally my feeling is in the 80's when we offered wider home ownership there was a genuine strategy to increase house prices and create the perception that we were all getting wealthier, and, misguidedly, I think we all still feel that in a way. "House prices are going up" .. seen as good news IF you're on the ladder, "Nothing better than bricks & mortar" etc etc.

The strategy would work IF the houses weren't sold at such huge discounts, if the money raised had gone directly back to building more houses and we hadn't fuelled the house prices with the buy-to-let gold rush!

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[Politics] Spreadsheet Phil's Budget

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