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[Misc] What was Britain’s single greatest achievement of the 20th century?



G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,336
Uffern
Miami Seagull said:
Second vote for the Battle of Britain. If that had ended differently then nothing would be the same.
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This is a bit off the topic but would it have been any different? Hitler would still have had a great deal of difficulty in mounting an invasion as the RN was still very strong. Even if they had invaded, the logistics of supplying the occupying army would have been tricky.

I'm not denying the Battle of Britain was a heroic event and certainly hampered the German war effort but beyond being a morale booster (which is not to be sniffed at) was it really that significant?
 






beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,289
Gwylan said:
This is a bit off the topic but would it have been any different? Hitler would still have had a great deal of difficulty in mounting an invasion as the RN was still very strong. Even if they had invaded, the logistics of supplying the occupying army would have been tricky.

I'm not denying the Battle of Britain was a heroic event and certainly hampered the German war effort but beyond being a morale booster (which is not to be sniffed at) was it really that significant?
Click to expand...

if they had neutralised the airfields, they could give adequate air cover to keep the RN out of the English Channel. at the very least they could have had a go.
 


Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,559
I'd say our greatest achievement was the WW2 intelligence operation at Bletchley Park: Turing, Flowers, Colossus, The Bombe, decoding Enigma and creating the technology that led to today's computers.

Not only did they achieve great things with technology but the teamwork was incredible and all undertaken under the Official Secret's Act with not a murmur to the outside world, often at the cost of marriages and other family relationships.
 






G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,336
Uffern
beorhthelm said:
if they had neutralised the airfields, they could give adequate air cover to keep the RN out of the English Channel. at the very least they could have had a go.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, this question was asked on Quora and none of the people answering thought that Germany winning the Battle of Britain would have made a significant difference - at least not in the military sense. There is the possibility that Churchill would have been forced out but I don't even think that's clear-cut.

https://www.quora.com/What-would-have-happened-if-Germany-had-won-the-Battle-of-Britain

It would have made no difference to an invasion, which would have certainly failed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion_(wargame)
 


Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Withdrawal from Empire,leading to the Commonwealth.
 


Miami Seagull

Miami Seagull

Grandad
Jul 12, 2003
1,463
Miami Florida, USA
Winning the Battle of Britain had far more far reaching effects than I think is being recognized here. Churchill will likely have fallen had we lost and many of those likely to replace him would quite possibly have negotiated a settlement with Hitler, all from a position of extreme weakness. Hitler would not have turned his forces away from us in any event. Additionally it was Hitler's first critical failure of the war, weakening the previously unshakeable belief in him from both within the German ranks and the nation and the first indication to many that this was indeed a madman at play. The Battle of Britain broke the perception of what Hitler was at that time and the value of that should not be underestimated.
 






DavidinSouthampton

DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
16,569
studio150 said:
Sadly true, an estimated 800,000 civilian deaths in the near 900 day siege of the city which is nearly the same as the total civilian deaths of British and American civilians during the whole of World War II
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Those numbers are staggering. I doubted the veracity of it when I read it, although I was aware that Russia (or the USSR) suffered enormous casualties. Fascinating to have it confirmed.
 


DavidinSouthampton

DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
16,569
DavidinSouthampton said:
Those numbers are staggering. I doubted the veracity of it when I read it, although I was aware that Russia (or the USSR) suffered enormous casualties. Fascinating to have it confirmed.
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Thank God we have the EU to avoid further wars in Europe...……… Oh!
 




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,778
Hove
Gwylan said:
Interestingly, this question was asked on Quora and none of the people answering thought that Germany winning the Battle of Britain would have made a significant difference - at least not in the military sense. There is the possibility that Churchill would have been forced out but I don't even think that's clear-cut.

https://www.quora.com/What-would-have-happened-if-Germany-had-won-the-Battle-of-Britain

It would have made no difference to an invasion, which would have certainly failed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion_(wargame)
Click to expand...

If we can conclude that the Americans joining the war effort effectively ended WWII, then we can also conclude that without winning the Battle of Britain, the Americans in all likelihood don't get involved. Rather than being a defeated neutralised force, whether invaded or not, the Americans are not backing the losing side in the war. Britain was already massively in debt to them, and you don't let your main creditors sink if you think they have a winning chance. Britain winning the air battle, surviving the blitz and showing they would stand up to Hitler was key in the Americans joining the war.
 


B

Bulldog

Well-known member
Sep 25, 2010
749
The Americans had no choice in joining the war. The Germans declared war on them as an act of solidarity following Pearl Harbour. They were at war with Hitler whether they liked it or not.
 






G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,336
Uffern
Bold Seagull said:
If we can conclude that the Americans joining the war effort effectively ended WWII,
Click to expand...

That's debatable. Germany was being pushed back by the Soviet Union before D-Day, although the Americans certainly speeded up things.

we can also conclude that without winning the Battle of Britain, the Americans in all likelihood don't get involved.
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And that's very questionable. The US entered the war after Pearl Harbor, sooner or later they'd have turned their attention to Japan's allies in Europe.

I do agree though that if the Germans had won the BoB then Churchill could have been kicked out but that's by no means certain. I said that the victory there wasn't to be sniffed at as a morale booster but I doubt whether it was militarily significant
 


midnight_rendezvous

midnight_rendezvous

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2012
3,737
The Black Country
Nottseagull said:
On a current thread I was surprised to read this:
Welcome as it undoubtedly was to the majority of the population, I can think of several other things. I'll start in the pre-world war era and propose that the greatest achievement was the maintenance of the British Empire, which ruled a quarter of the World using a tiny fraction of that population.
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May I ask why you were surprised? It’s free health care regardless of wealth and prosperity that we have all benefited from.
 










beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,289
Gwylan said:
Interestingly, this question was asked on Quora and none of the people answering thought that Germany winning the Battle of Britain would have made a significant difference - at least not in the military sense. There is the possibility that Churchill would have been forced out but I don't even think that's clear-cut.

https://www.quora.com/What-would-have-happened-if-Germany-had-won-the-Battle-of-Britain

It would have made no difference to an invasion, which would have certainly failed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion_(wargame)
Click to expand...

that war game assumes that the Luftwaffe has not established air superiority. as the Battle of Britain was a battle for air superiority, the wargame supposes it was a draw and ongoing conflict. the question is what if we lost that battle, if they had air superiority the capability of the RN to defend the coast and intercept their admitedly ropey invasion fleet would have been signifcantly weakened.
 


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