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[Politics] *** Labour Party Annual Conference, 23-25 September 2018, ACC Liverpool ***



WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
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Jul 10, 2003
25,852
Bozza said:
Which was my point - the statistic is meaningless as people are agreeing to something they don't understand. A bit like leaving the EU.
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Right, merge the threads :lolol:

But now you've done it

beorhthelm said:
i've long ago conceded on brexit, i back it on the basis those leading it would have planned for the implemention. in this i was woefully wrong, that doesnt mean in principle it was necessarily wrong to leave, the arguments for and against are still there.
.
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What sort of planning do you think would get the EU to renege on their principles and let us cherry pick more :rolleyes:

No matter what planning was done or who was in charge of negotiations, it was always going to be Softest of soft Brexit, No Deal or cancel Article 50.

This situation was EXACTLY what you voted for.
 
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Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,497
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
hans kraay fan club said:
Thanks for the clarification. Point stands though - people who are (or in this case, were) attracted to this station, by the likes of Farage and Hopkins, are unlikely to be calling up their phone-ins to shower plaudits on a string of socialist proposals!
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No, but they did get plenty of calls from people wanting to put them in their place.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,310
Bozza said:
Indeed, although a bigger question for me is what happens to companies with UK subsidiaries with large workforces, the likes of Amazon and Starbucks - companies people love to hate, yet use in their millions. I can't see how UK plc could essentially seize shares and associated rights from overseas companies in the way they seem to be proposing they would do with UK-based companies.

And if they can't, as you say, UK companies can headquarter overseas to avoid what seems to be a not very stealthy tax on enterprise.
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its "simple", the policy is to go after the share capital, which even subsidiaries must hold to remain limited liability companies in the UK. some smaller/foreign companies may bypass this with nominal share capital and never give a dividend, sending their revenues overseas. as always there's a massive loop hole when people dont understand the systems.
the clever/dangerous part of this that its not a tax at all, its likely not raise much. if McDonnell wanted to raise revenue he'd put 1% on employer NI, or adjust the thresholds, raise a lot that way. this is to grab capital, pass to "funds" controlled by the state, creeping nationalisation with the capital of all business eroding and passing to these funds.
 


Bozza

Bozza

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Jul 4, 2003
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The main man is on stage this afternoon, which is going to be something. Lots of good talk to come about upping our game on renewables, with associated economic benefits.

Unfortunately for JC, even with the "radical" proposals he is announcing today, Greenpeace still seem to place Labour behind the Tories when it comes to the environment. Rebecca Newsom, Greenpeace's head of politics saying: "we need to see much more action in other crucial areas for Labour to win the title of the greenest major party".
 


Bozza

Bozza

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beorhthelm said:
its "simple", the policy is to go after the share capital, which even subsidiaries must hold to remain limited liability companies in the UK. some smaller/foreign companies may bypass this with nominal share capital and never give a dividend, sending their revenues overseas. as always there's a massive loop hole when people dont understand the systems.
the clever/dangerous part of this that its not a tax at all, its likely not raise much. if McDonnell wanted to raise revenue he'd put 1% on employer NI, or adjust the thresholds, raise a lot that way. this is to grab capital, pass to "funds" controlled by the state, creeping nationalisation with the capital of all business eroding and passing to these funds.
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Well, yes, Amazon UK is wholly owned by Amazon EU Sarl in Luxembourg which is wholly owned by Amazon.com in the US. Without looking, I'm sure Amazon UK has never paid a dividend and likely never will. Giving employees (up to) 10% of Amazon UK's shares delivers them no benefit at all.
 




wellquickwoody

wellquickwoody

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borat said:
Im not doing your homework. I think you might struggle to find many Labour voices in key roles. The Tory names I mentioned are make key editorial decisions or are the main political presenters/commentators.

I will add to that list Alison Pedley who decides who the audience is at BBC Question Time - whilst not a Tory, she has shown support of Britain First, UKIP and Britain Patriot Front. More right leaning influence.

Look forward to seeing your Labour list of political editors and presenters at the BBC......
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Calling you out Sir! The BBC would not employ someone who showed public support of Britain First or the 'made up' Britain Patriot Front, now prove me wrong........
 


clapham_gull

clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,324
borat said:
Im not doing your homework. I think you might struggle to find many Labour voices in key roles. The Tory names I mentioned are make key editorial decisions or are the main political presenters/commentators.

I will add to that list Alison Pedley who decides who the audience is at BBC Question Time - whilst not a Tory, she has shown support of Britain First, UKIP and Britain Patriot Front. More right leaning influence.

Look forward to seeing your Labour list of political editors and presenters at the BBC......
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Worth pointing out the person in question isn't an employee of the BBC.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk
 


B

borat

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2003
467
wellquickwoody said:
Calling you out Sir! The BBC would not employ someone who showed public support of Britain First or the 'made up' Britain Patriot Front, now prove me wrong........
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Challenge accepted. It depends what you classify as ''public support''' but she has shared Britain Firsts Posts and Joined the Facebook group Britain Patriots Front which has lost of dubious material.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourbeeb/tim-holmes/is-question-time-s-audience-producer-really-fascist

Im not suggesting she's a nailed on facist but can we agree her behaviours are suggestive of someone to the right and also that she has significant role at the BBC? - which is the original point I was making.
 




B

borat

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2003
467
clapham_gull said:
Worth pointing out the person in question isn't an employee of the BBC.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk
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Does it matter if she is instrumental in choosing the QT audience?- The BBC still pays her for her services directly or indirectly.
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,497
Beside the seaside, beside the sea


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,206
Surrey
Bozza said:
Which was my point - the statistic is meaningless as people are agreeing to something they don't understand. A bit like leaving the EU.
Click to expand...

In a nutshell, this is why I'll vote Corbyn as long as he gives us a way out of this Brexit mess. Sure, they are proposing all manner of populist but unworkable methods of income redistribution that will end up doing damage to the economy, but at least we'll get a chance to vote him out again.
 




B

BLOCK F

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
6,356
Simster said:
In a nutshell, this is why I'll vote Corbyn as long as he gives us a way out of this Brexit mess. Sure, they are proposing all manner of populist but unworkable methods of income redistribution that will end up doing damage to the economy, but at least we'll get a chance to vote him out again.
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Don't think a vote for Corbyn will carry much weight in Reigate!
 








highflyer

highflyer

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Jan 21, 2016
2,435
Bozza said:
Which was my point - the statistic is meaningless as people are agreeing to something they don't understand. A bit like leaving the EU.
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I don't think it's meaningless.

From a political perspective (and the point of the article I linked to) it is one part of a bigger picture. It says that a lot of people like the ideas, and the sense of ambition, coming from Labour. This is one part of a much bigger package of ideas, they cannot each be taken in isolation. This is one part of a broad suite of policy proposals, drawn from work done by the IPPR and others: https://www.ippr.org/files/2017-07/cej-cgr-dp-17-07-14-summary.pdf

Some will need more work, some may need to be dumped and replaced. It is the ambition that matters. Most of all the ambition and will to push through such a package of reform against significant and powerful vested interests.

The point made in the article is that while everyone (The Tories, the media and a large part of Labour) obsess over Brexit, Labour leadership is using the opportunity to fill the 'ideas void'. And to convince those that want to listen that they are serious. They assume that most people are not so obsessed with the fine details of Brexit and are more concerned about other problems affecting their day to day lives.

And that may turn out to be, as I said, playing a blinder.
 


wellquickwoody

wellquickwoody

Many More Voting Years
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Aug 10, 2007
13,624
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borat said:
Challenge accepted. It depends what you classify as ''public support''' but she has shared Britain Firsts Posts and Joined the Facebook group Britain Patriots Front which has lost of dubious material.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourbeeb/tim-holmes/is-question-time-s-audience-producer-really-fascist

Im not suggesting she's a nailed on facist but can we agree her behaviours are suggestive of someone to the right and also that she has significant role at the BBC? - which is the original point I was making.
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So you cannot and you have not.

I am someone to the right, not extreme right but righter than middle. In today's PC world I seem to be labelled racist or nazi, a very long way from the truth. Can someone from the right of you not be allowed a significant role in the media? If you believe that to be the case then I suggest you research the racist, you may find some uncomfortable truths.
 


Bozza

Bozza

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55,744
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highflyer said:
I don't think it's meaningless.

From a political perspective (and the point of the article I linked to) it is one part of a bigger picture. It says that a lot of people like the ideas, and the sense of ambition, coming from Labour. This is one part of a much bigger package of ideas, they cannot each be taken in isolation. This is one part of a broad suite of policy proposals, drawn from work done by the IPPR and others: https://www.ippr.org/files/2017-07/cej-cgr-dp-17-07-14-summary.pdf

Some will need more work, some may need to be dumped and replaced. It is the ambition that matters. Most of all the ambition and will to push through such a package of reform against significant and powerful vested interests.

The point made in the article is that while everyone (The Tories, the media and a large part of Labour) obsess over Brexit, Labour leadership is using the opportunity to fill the 'ideas void'. And to convince those that want to listen that they are serious. They assume that most people are not so obsessed with the fine details of Brexit and are more concerned about other problems affecting their day to day lives.

And that may turn out to be, as I said, playing a blinder.
Click to expand...

Ah, so Labour have been largely absent from discussions on the most critical issue facing this country for a generation because they've been working on pie-in-the-sky policies that are wholly unpractical. Gotcha. I'm sold - where do I vote?
 


highflyer

highflyer

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2016
2,435
Bozza said:
Ah, so Labour have been largely absent from discussions on the most critical issue facing this country for a generation because they've been working on pie-in-the-sky policies that are wholly unpractical. Gotcha. I'm sold - where do I vote?
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You may not be their target audience.
 




B

borat

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2003
467
wellquickwoody said:
So you cannot and you have not.

I am someone to the right, not extreme right but righter than middle. In today's PC world I seem to be labelled racist or nazi, a very long way from the truth. Can someone from the right of you not be allowed a significant role in the media? If you believe that to be the case then I suggest you research the racist, you may find some uncomfortable truths.
Click to expand...

I just did! To repeat..... She shared posts from right leaning group on a public forum (FB) and joined another right leaning group. Add in the UKIP ties. If that doesnt suggest to you that she is right leaning on the polictical spectrum than Im afraid our discussion is futile.

Nothing wrong with having representation in the BBC from a range of political views. My point is that at the moment its heavily one sided with many influential editiorial/presenter roles are held by Tories or those with more right leaning views. Im not sure that is even disputable.
 




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