Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Albion] Apologies to the whingers - but reality check about our start to the season



One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Aug 4, 2006
21,483
Worthing
Disappointed in you Teddy! Your expectations are getting to be too much! We HAVE improved on last year it’s just a painfully slow progress, have more patience :smile:

CH will integrate the newbies more over the next few games and we will move forward...imo

I am actually way more confident in our ability to stay up this year, Saints apart we have actually done OK. Watford are the surprise package so far so my disappointment at that shite display is now tempered with the realisation that they are quite good. Fulham are also a good side who will turn over better teams than us. We have taken three points off Liverpool, Spurs and Utd. We got no points off the top six for months last season.

Oh and we’ve come from two goals behind twice, nearly thrice. There is absolutely no way we would have pulled that off last season

Patience is the key, not knee jerk slagging off of anybody and everybody when we disappoint (not suggesting that’s you btw but there are quite a few on here who are staring to lob toys out of prams and stamping their feet and having tantrums.

Don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, and yes we have improved in terms of experience and belief. Couldn’t agree more re the two goal deficits.

But consequently, we are competitive as you’ve indicated, so I really don’t think setting us up very deep, is the right strategy against a team low on confidence. (We certainly weren’t that deep vs Man Utd).

Yet to miss a game this season and for me:

Watford was appalling, they weren’t great had about 4 meaningful shots, we were worse.
Man Utd we were brilliant
Liverpool as per Utd
Fulham we were poor in the main, they were ordinary, individual errors cost us.
Stains shocking for 45
Yesterday poor again.

So the slight worry for me is that we haven’t been average yet. No team will play perfectly all season, but we seem to be hot or cold.

(I suppose Cup game was average thinking back).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,555
On the Border
Also on the other hand:

Last season
A v Watford 1pt
H v Man U 3 pt
A v Liverpool 0pt
A v Southampton 1pt
H v Tottenham 1pt
Total: 6pts

This
A v Watford 0pt
H v Man U 3 pt
A v Liverpool 0pt
A v Southampton 1pt
H v Tottenham 0pt

Total 4 points

Is it really unfair to be disappointed that we have not got (or even deserved, really) as many points from these same fixtures with a supposedly improved squad? Is expecting to at least match last season, again given the improvement in the squad, really a deluded level of expectation?

Yes
 


dwayne

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
14,860
London
Also on the other hand:

Last season
A v Watford 1pt
H v Man U 3 pt
A v Liverpool 0pt
A v Southampton 1pt
H v Tottenham 1pt
Total: 6pts

This
A v Watford 0pt
H v Man U 3 pt
A v Liverpool 0pt
A v Southampton 1pt
H v Tottenham 0pt

Total 4 points

Is it really unfair to be disappointed that we have not got (or even deserved, really) as many points from these same fixtures with a supposedly improved squad? Is expecting to at least match last season, again given the improvement in the squad, really a deluded level of expectation?
Silly comparison

When we played spurs and man u last season they pretty much had nothing to play for. Watford played with 10 for.most of the match. Etc etc

I think we are on par with last season. We are certainly having more problems with injuries. But we have a stronger squad

Very early days

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
Don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, and yes we have improved in terms of experience and belief. Couldn’t agree more re the two goal deficits.

But consequently, we are competitive as you’ve indicated, so I really don’t think setting us up very deep, is the right strategy against a team low on confidence. (We certainly weren’t that deep vs Man Utd).

Yet to miss a game this season and for me:

Watford was appalling, they weren’t great had about 4 meaningful shots, we were worse.
Man Utd we were brilliant
Liverpool as per Utd
Fulham we were poor in the main, they were ordinary, individual errors cost us.
Stains shocking for 45
Yesterday poor again.

So the slight worry for me is that we haven’t been average yet. No team will play perfectly all season, but we seem to be hot or cold.

(I suppose Cup game was average thinking back).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Spurs didn’t look low on confidence to me. I think there was a great assumption before the game that this was the case, but I felt we could be in for a hiding as top teams do bounce back. I don’t think we were as bad as people are making out, and Spurs were better than they’re getting credit for. I’ve got faith in what we do, especially at home where our record is very good. We don’t need to suddenly transform that tactically, what we do need though is consistency from the players, they’ve not quite got it going last 2 games, whereas previous 3 they did, even Fulham we should have led and would have deserved it too.
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Spurs didn’t look low on confidence to me. I think there was a great assumption before the game that this was the case, but I felt we could be in for a hiding as top teams do bounce back. I don’t think we were as bad as people are making out, and Spurs were better than they’re getting credit for. I’ve got faith in what we do, especially at home where our record is very good. We don’t need to suddenly transform that tactically, what we do need though is consistency from the players, they’ve not quite got it going last 2 games, whereas previous 3 they did, even Fulham we should have led and would have deserved it too.

I think the fact that United didn’t look that bothered and were definitely not playing for the manager cannot be compared with the intensity that Spurs showed yesterday. They gave us absolutely no time on the ball and forced errors just about every time we did manage to get the ball in the first half. They were also 100% up for the game at kick off and playing for their pride and the manager. I know they are both top teams but we caught United on a bad day and Tottenham on a good day.

If United had given it a go from the kick off I suggest the game would have been far more like yesterdays.

In short we weren’t given the opportunity as Spurs wouldn’t let us have the bloody ball in the first half. Maybe they took their foot off the pedal or got tired in the second?
 




DumLum

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2009
3,772
West, West, West Sussex.
Expectations from an increasing number of fans are now reaching a deluded level.

We need to get back to the halcyon days when we won the Premier League, the FA and League Cup and conquered Europe obviously

Back in the day, we won all these and then the Super Cup against Flamengo.*




* The Albion then faced a lifetime ban on just being too good for every other team. With an average scoreline of 36-0. Subbuteo on my own was never the same again.
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Back in the day, we won all these and then the Super Cup against Flamengo.*




* The Albion then faced a lifetime ban on just being too good for every other team. With an average scoreline of 36-0. Subbuteo on my own was never the same again.

You might have used Subbuteo but I got the results on table football in Continental holiday camps against those Johnny Foreigners, much harder :wink:

Still got banned for being too damned good though!
 


studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,555
On the Border
I'm starting to understand why West Brom and Stoke were relegated last season, and a lot of our fans seem to want us to follow them into the championship.

Both clubs established in the PL, but the fans start to moan about defensive football, need to have a go,( sound familiar ) the boards decide the fans are right and dictate a change in style, result relegation.

Also if you cast you mind back to the Albion under Mike Bailey, we achieve our highest ever finish in the clubs history, but controlling the game by passing back to the keeper is deemed unacceptable, and change in style required result relegation the next season.

Just leave CH to continue his excellent work his way, and just enjoy the defensive displays
 




goldstone

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
7,108
Spurs were favourites, but the negative football against Spurs and Stains giving them total control from the whistle, is painful to watch. Next to no attacking intent, Murray isolated. Allowing the hitherto struggling opposition to believe they’re kings.

I agree. The first half performance by the Albion was painful to watch. We really need to try playing attacking football from kick-off, not waiting until we're two goals down. Tactics currently are completely wrong. And we need to be starting players like AJ. We paid a lot of money for him and he needs to start. The current starting eleven is clearly not up to the job as the painful performances against Fulham and Saints in the first half of each game showed. Another error by Dunk which almost lead to a goal … he's not at his best and Balogun should start. Locadia again poor when he came on. Why him and not Adone?. We need a shake-up.
 


Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
12,898
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Spurs didn’t look low on confidence to me. I think there was a great assumption before the game that this was the case, but I felt we could be in for a hiding as top teams do bounce back. I don’t think we were as bad as people are making out, and Spurs were better than they’re getting credit for. I’ve got faith in what we do, especially at home where our record is very good. We don’t need to suddenly transform that tactically, what we do need though is consistency from the players, they’ve not quite got it going last 2 games, whereas previous 3 they did, even Fulham we should have led and would have deserved it too.

Sure, but it was probably as defensive and respectful as we've been at home since the Man City game, which was a little unexpected. I enjoy us going at teams at home and that was all too sporadic yesterday
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
Spurs were favourites, but the negative football against Spurs and Stains giving them total control from the whistle, is painful to watch. Next to no attacking intent, Murray isolated. Allowing the hitherto struggling opposition to believe they’re kings.
But it's not like the team don't know we were awful in the first half against SCC. In the interview after the game, Murray said he didn't know why we were so bad, and Hughton didn't seem to know either, and that's obviously what they'll be working on fixing. It's always going to be disappointing when we play poorly, and no matter how much we progress, there will always be times when that happens.

The team know, they'll try and improve, we just have to hope they manage it.
 




DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jan 3, 2012
16,536
Haŕry Kane said yesterday they could have buried it and won 3 or 4 nil (arrogant bar steward).

But on the other hand of AK had taken his chances, we would have won 3-2..... and that is not knocking Knocky, it's just saying we were still in the mix right to the end.

And CH is in this for the long term, not the shot term. I appreciate some of the comments about unleashing it niw, but we do gave some real talent waiting in the wings..... and i include in that tge much maligned Locadia.
 


One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Aug 4, 2006
21,483
Worthing
Spurs didn’t look low on confidence to me. I think there was a great assumption before the game that this was the case, but I felt we could be in for a hiding as top teams do bounce back. I don’t think we were as bad as people are making out, and Spurs were better than they’re getting credit for. I’ve got faith in what we do, especially at home where our record is very good. We don’t need to suddenly transform that tactically, what we do need though is consistency from the players, they’ve not quite got it going last 2 games, whereas previous 3 they did, even Fulham we should have led and would have deserved it too.

Don’t agree.
Easy to look good when you’re under no pressure, as soon as we pressed, they were shaky.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


stewart_weir

Well-known member
Mar 19, 2017
1,000
We’ve played 3 ‘Top 6 Teams’,
BHA 3-2 Man Utd
Pool 1-0 BHA
BHA 1-2 Spurs

So, after playing 3 top 6 teams, we have 3 points and a GD of -1 from the 3 games. We aren’t spending £50m on one player, so for those who are whinging about the result today, just f‘k off.

No one likes to lose - but we aren’t at that level.

Compared to the ‘rabbits in the headlights’ sometimes last season, we look stronger and more threatening. We aren’t, for the foreseeable future, going to be taking the game to teams like this, so it will always be about containment and counter attacking.

ABSOLUTELY! It could well have been another come back to 2-2 yesterday however we ride our luck and continue to make chances. One thing that must change however is to stop these slow starts..
 




Bladders

Twats everywhere
Jun 22, 2012
13,672
The Troubadour
Talk about most missing the point.

No one is expecting us to run rings around Spurs at home, but I would expect us, a Premier league outfit to be able to string a few passes together, maybe have a shot or two and not just camp ourselves in our own half whilst at home for 45 minutes.

The second half showed what we are capable of against Spurs at home, yes Spurs still looked the better team but at least it was a competitive game of football in the second 45 .
 


Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Aug 25, 2011
63,400
Withdean area
Talk about most missing the point.

No one is expecting us to run rings around Spurs at home, but I would expect us, a Premier league outfit to be able to string a few passes together, maybe have a shot or two and not just camp ourselves in our own half whilst at home for 45 minutes.

The second half showed what we are capable of against Spurs at home, yes Spurs still looked the better team but at least it was a competitive game of football in the second 45 .

:goal:

In fairness, many have said exactly that in posts on various threads. How did a PL team at home offer zilch in a first half of football?
 


Turkey

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2003
15,568
The other way of looking at that is that we haven't improved our squad enough to keep up. And sure, we might take more points in games to come than in their corresponding games last season, but people are reacting to what has happened, not what might happen in the future.



Are we? We turned it on against Man U and, fruitlessly, Liverpool, but in the other games? Watford, Southampton for at least 60mins, are described as some of our worst performances in the premier league. Our performance against Tottenham? We sat back and let them control the game and deserved to lose. We had a brief period where we took the game to them, but then sat back again until the last two minutes of injury time. Fulham felt at the time like a good performance, felt like we dominated them, but conceded two goals (and didn't have the bulk of possession) - was it that good? Even if it is, is it enough to play well in a loss and a draw (especially when that draw is the sort of game we should be looking to win - home against a newly promoted side - if we're looking to stay up again)?


Personally, I go back and forth on whether I'm positive about this year, our results and performances, but in the context of results and performances, it seems disingenuous to describe anyone who is upset as having unrealistic expectations when we are clearly not achieving as well as we did last season (that is, it isn't deluded to expect to match last year, that simply saying 'we've played top x amount of games v top six as if it is unreasonable to expect us to attain something we have done before - when, for instance, Tottenham were in a better run of form when we faced them last season, etc)

In my view it's too soon to say we haven't improved our squad enough to keep up. We've improved the quality and depth of our squad, that'll hopefully help over a long season rather than an immediate impact in the first handful of games. Montoya and Bissouma may not even be playing if it wasn't for injuries to Bruno and Gross. If Bruno and Gross were injured last season would we have replacements as good as Montoya and Bissouma? The past has shown season to season sometimes you take more or less points off a team than another, comparing this season results vs the same opposition has limited value because it'll fluctuate all season (we'll probably struggle to take 6 from West Ham again, but could certainly take more than 1 from Huddersfield etc).

I remember just how bad we were at somewhere like Leicester early last season. It took us time to adjust to the levels of this league, to gain confidence against the big 6 thanks to those performances such as United away, Chelsea home where despite losing we built up our belief we could get a result which all helped build towards the Arsenal/United victories etc. I don't think we look like we're going through that adjustment phase anymore, the players now have that confidence that they are Premier League players and they can perform at this level. I think for long spells last season I didn't feel like we could go up a gear and find a goal, perhaps it's just me but I feel like we have more goals in us now. Knockaert is playing very well and as I said before, still have Izquierdo to return and still have the best of Jahanbakhsh and Andone to see, that excites me.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me and I'm not trying to change your mind, just sharing how I feel. My overall take from the 6 games as a whole, rather than good/bad spells in each etc, is that I think we've progressed, that we have better depth, that we have more goals in us and that I think we'll stay up again.
 


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
Don’t agree.
Easy to look good when you’re under no pressure, as soon as we pressed, they were shaky.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which is why I said it comes down to player performances and not necessarily tactics unless you think CH sent them out there not to close down the opposition - I honestly don’t think this will be the case, it comes down to collective confidence because pressing risks a player jinking passed you and needs everyone on the same page. March for example just doesn’t press at the start of the game, once one doesn’t do it it’s increasingly hard for the rest.

The difference between Spurs & MU is that Spurs happily pushed Trippier and Rose into our half, MU were much more cautious, and not down to how we played, tactically we were very similar, MU just gave us a bit more space and weren’t in our faces, Spurs were for the first 20 or so.
 




One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Aug 4, 2006
21,483
Worthing
Which is why I said it comes down to player performances and not necessarily tactics unless you think CH sent them out there not to close down the opposition - I honestly don’t think this will be the case, it comes down to collective confidence because pressing risks a player jinking passed you and needs everyone on the same page. March for example just doesn’t press at the start of the game, once one doesn’t do it it’s increasingly hard for the rest.

The difference between Spurs & MU is that Spurs happily pushed Trippier and Rose into our half, MU were much more cautious, and not down to how we played, tactically we were very similar, MU just gave us a bit more space and weren’t in our faces, Spurs were for the first 20 or so.

But would you not agree, that if Chris can see us sitting too deep, he can tell them to move out. I do think we set up defensively initially, a bank of 4 and a bank of 5, but as soon as we conceded we had to come out.

I think it was clear we were not going to press high, unless we conceded.

Rose and Trippier only pushed on because Solly particularly and Knockaert were on top of the Bong and Montoya, consequently when we cleared the ball, Murray was on his own and they regained possession.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
But would you not agree, that if Chris can see us sitting too deep, he can tell them to move out. I do think we set up defensively initially, a bank of 4 and a bank of 5, but as soon as we conceded we had to come out.

I think it was clear we were not going to press high, unless we conceded.

Rose and Trippier only pushed on because Solly particularly and Knockaert were on top of the Bong and Montoya, consequently when we cleared the ball, Murray was on his own and they regained possession.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think he was, very animated for Chris both at Saints Andy first part of yesterday’s game; didn’t look like a manager happy his team were carrying out what he envisaged to me.
 



Paying the bills

Latest Discussions

Paying the bills

Paying the bills

Paying the bills

Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here