I don't think you're understanding my point here.
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[Albion] Jay Rodriguez: "The truth came out"
- Thread starter Wozza
- Start date
I don't think you're understanding my point here.
Jeez.
There have been numerous times in my life where I am absolutely 100% confident that I have heard something, only to be wrong. Similarly there have been times I've said something that has been completely misheard by another, who was adamant they heard something different to what I actually said.
I absolutely believe that Bong is sure he heard what he said he heard. But he could still be wrong. The ONLY person who knows what was said is Jay Rodriguez.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
The other side of this is that Bong 'dothn't protest too much'. Or he protests rarely. I gather this is the only time he's accused an opponent of making a racist comment. He was so sure that he approached the referee immediately, and the game was stopped for a few minutes (I was there). In contrast to some others on this board, I strongly suspect that he did make a racist comment, and that Bong didn't mishear what was said. After all, the racist word Bong alleged that he used isn't too difficult to mishear.
That can happen I agree
But when your own team behind you, say to you immediately after it '' Look are you 100% certain before we throw ourselves behind you in this'' - Bong would have played it back in his mind a thousand times and said to himself ''could I be wrong, could I even have slightly misheard, could it really have been something different'' and when he has done that and knowing the gravity of what he would be putting the Club, his manager and himself through and he still comes up with the same answer then there is no likelihood in his mind that he was wrong. There are times in life when you simply ARE 100% sure in what you have just heard. This was one of those times for Gaetan.
I still don't think you're understanding it.
Mackenzie
Old Brightonian
Sorry Jay, the verdict still remains “unproven”.
The only TRUTH is we’ll never know if you are guilty or innocent.
The only TRUTH is we’ll never know if you are guilty or innocent.
I do understand what your saying - You are saying. ''Bong is certain he heard what he heard but there is the slightest chance he might just be wrong'' - I get that. I understand it but in my response I am saying. He was asked to play it all back in his head again before they all put their weight behind him. He did that a thousand times and came up with the same words, so he has analysed it more than any of us could ever do. He probably threw every scenario of other words that it possibly could have been through his own brain and it still come out the same.
And the fact that he has done all that and gave himself an opportunity to be mistaken and came to the conclusion he wasn't. That's enough for me.
No cases would ever get reported if you took the view ''Well there is the slightest chance you might be wrong''
Sorry this should have been a response to post #45
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Mackenzie
Old Brightonian
I’m not saying any of that. I’m simply repeating the verdict of the inquiry that any guit or innocence is and remains unproven.
I know - It wsn't your post I was responding to. My mistake. Sorry
See how easy it is to be misunderstood.
See also how easy it is when you make a mistake to come out and say sorry
The human mind is a very complicated thing. As Bozza said earlier, I have been absolutely 100% convinced I have said something, or remembered something, and it turns out that I was actually wrong. It doesn't matter how sure you are, it doesn't necessarily make you right. And sometimes the higher the stakes, the more you are convinced of your hearing / memory. Cognitive dissonance is a really interesting area.
If I had to put money on it, I'd say Rodriguez probably did say something racist, and then instantly regretted it. But there's also a fair chance that he didn't, which is why the verdict the FA came to was correct.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
I really do get what you're saying, and also suspect -- although in my instance, it's strongly suspect -- that Rodriguez did say something racist to Bong. One of the word Bong alleges he uses is black. I'm wondering what word Rodriguez uttered that sounds like black. Can't think of any myself.
father_and_son
Well-known member
But being 100% sure and being right are not necessarily the same thing!
If there was any doubt in his mind about what he heard then he wasn't 100% sure... he was 90% sure or 75% sure or maybe even 50% sure. But yes, he said he is 100% sure. The scenario you describe probably happened and that, plus the fact he reacted immediately and has never waivered from his original account all make me believe he is absolutely, categorically and undeniably 100%. BUT, being 100% sure of something and being right are not the same thing.
I am 100% sure there is no God. I do not believe in a divine power in any shape or form. There is absolutely no God... it's not 99% sure or 99.9% sure, I am 100% sure.
Am I right? Dunno. I believe I am, that's what 100% sure means, but I can't prove it.
Kalimantan Gull
Well-known member
I think everyone is quite right to point out that he could believe it 100% and still be wrong, but it does seem like the balance of probability has been shifted to 'Bong misheard', which is now becoming a true-ism in and of itself.
I think what Noo wrote here is the absolute crux of this. To assume that there is no racism in football would be badly mistaken
Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
Personally I presume that Bong's experience of racism is more far-reaching than that of almost all on here and that, on the balance of probability, he heard what he heard.
It's true that, for the very same reason, he expects to hear racist remarks and might therefore have imagined it in the din at The Hawthorns (well, sort of). But equally, he would have known the consequences of complaining and would not have done it lightly.
It's true that, for the very same reason, he expects to hear racist remarks and might therefore have imagined it in the din at The Hawthorns (well, sort of). But equally, he would have known the consequences of complaining and would not have done it lightly.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Yup, and reading this thread alongside Gary Younge's article today on Serena/The Herald Sun where he commented that we have reached the peculiar juncture where accusations of racism make people more upset than the racism itself. The evidence is clearly stacked against Rodriguez.
Kaiser_Soze
Who is Kaiser Soze??
- Apr 14, 2008
- 1,355
I think your memory is failing you there. The reason Terry was cleared because in context, what JT said wasn't racist!
The Wind-up
No point in bringing an unsubstantiated report again. It cannot be proven or made true by repetition or trumped by denial. The only purpose is to prevent a repeat.
No point in bringing an unsubstantiated report again. It cannot be proven or made true by repetition or trumped by denial. The only purpose is to prevent a repeat.
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Calling someone a black c**t is racist. 0/10. Poor attempt at a troll.
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