[Help] Unfair dismissal in first week

BBassic · Sep 7, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
They probably didn't consider your personal emergency, as serious enough for you to miss a day's work. It is tough, but that's how some firms work.

I found I couldn't have a day off for my StepMum's funeral because she wasn't considered to be a close relative. I had to use annual leave instead.

I quit a job when I was 20 because they wanted me to take annual leave to attend my grandmother's funeral. I'd only moved to Brighton the month prior to start the job, had rent and bills to pay and all that but I'll be f**ked if I'm going to work for someone like that. Walked out there and then. Mental decision at the time but, with how my life has turned out, easily the best choice I made.

Billy the Fish · Sep 7, 2018

Napper said:
sorry to hear the bad news for your Mrs but after 1 week in a job , that isn't a viable reason to just skip work IMHO. Could of had some sleep and maybe been 2 hours late.

Employers call is harsh but maybe after week 1 they feel writing on the wall. Harsh call but you've made it easy for them there

Agree with this. ^

It's crap that that you've lost your job and you have my genuine sympathy as it sound like you've been put in a bad situation, but if I'm on my first week of work and under probation there's no way I'm taking a sick day unless I'm absolutely bed ridden.

Is there any reason why you didn't call them and just sent an e-mail?
That would've sent alarm bells ringing with your employer, for sure.

big nuts · Sep 7, 2018

SeagullinExile said:
I once had a lad who text me in the middle of the night saying he was sick and wouldn't be in the next day......

.....10 minutes later he text me asking me if 'I could get him any gear'!! Obviously meant for someone else!

I never saw him again!

A mate of mine was so smashed once he called in sick twice.

Justice · Sep 7, 2018

Gwylan said:
I would have thought that people without permanent employment would have even more need of a union. I'm self-employed and two clients are ignoring invoices and requests to pay. I'm going to have to take them to court, something that my union will greatly assist me with - they're invaluable when it comes to getting money out of bad payers.

You don’t need a union just change your terms we are strictly payment on completion, take a card number we always make landlords who aren’t present pre pay not sure what you do but you can adjust.

Tim Over Whelmed · Sep 7, 2018

The problem employers have is the need to show a consistent approach to all aspects of HR. There are, unfortunately, many people who will have very genuine reasons for absence and others who will outright lie for a day or two off. Sadly the need for consistency means that they are unlikely to allow people much leeway on this.

In this particular case, as an employer, I would have taken the same course of action I think.

Justice · Sep 7, 2018

Tim Over Whelmed said:
The problem employers have is the need to show a consistent approach to all aspects of HR. There are, unfortunately, many people who will have very genuine reasons for absence and others who will outright lie for a day or two off. Sadly the need for consistency means that they are unlikely to allow people much leeway on this.

In this particular case, as an employer, I would have taken the same course of action I think.

Have to agree, his bird should of told him to get some sleep as he had work, selfish if you ask me.

worthingseagull123 · Sep 7, 2018

Ernest said:
Welcome to Tory Britain where you have no rights

It would have been same outcome 1997-2010

Biscuit · Sep 7, 2018

BBassic said:
I quit a job when I was 20 because they wanted me to take annual leave to attend my grandmother's funeral. I'd only moved to Brighton the month prior to start the job, had rent and bills to pay and all that but I'll be f**ked if I'm going to work for someone like that. Walked out there and then. Mental decision at the time but, with how my life has turned out, easily the best choice I made.

I love stories like this.

I was being treated very badly by an employer in London. After a good few years earning my stripes I was fairly senior but was struggling to cope under the pressure and was having health complications. One day I got a phone call that my Aunt (whom I was extremely close to) had cancer so I knew I needed out.

I managed to get a mortgage in Brighton and the day we completed I quit my job in London. Everyone thought I was mad as I had just taken on an enormous mortgage and had bills etc to pay. but I felt I had no option - I felt it was just something I HAD to do. Within a week I'd found another job in Brighton, and it was the best decision I ever made career-wise.

The Clamp · Sep 7, 2018

Really sorry to hear of all the bad stuff happening to you. If you had time to text/ email you should have called. Tough break but not a lot you can do now. Either way, join a union. You’ll need it after 29th March next year whatever happens.

sussex_guy2k2 · Sep 7, 2018

Tim Over Whelmed said:
The problem employers have is the need to show a consistent approach to all aspects of HR. There are, unfortunately, many people who will have very genuine reasons for absence and others who will outright lie for a day or two off. Sadly the need for consistency means that they are unlikely to allow people much leeway on this.

In this particular case, as an employer, I would have taken the same course of action I think.

I think it depends on the employer, but I think after a week (or less) of work and after an email rather than phone call, they are well within their rights to make that call.

TSB · Sep 7, 2018

You should have just called in, IMO.

BBassic · Sep 7, 2018

Biscuit said:
I love stories like this.

I was being treated very badly by an employer in London. After a good few years earning my stripes I was fairly senior but was struggling to cope under the pressure and was having health complications. One day I got a phone call that my Aunt (whom I was extremely close to) had cancer so I knew I needed out.

I managed to get a mortgage in Brighton and the day we completed I quit my job in London. Everyone thought I was mad as I had just taken on an enormous mortgage and had bills etc to pay. but I felt I had no option - I felt it was just something I HAD to do. Within a week I'd found another job in Brighton, and it was the best decision I ever made career-wise.

Yep, it's this feeling exactly.

I'm easygoing enough but there's some stuff I just can't let stand.

And, this is easy to say with hindsight, but I like to think I'd still view my decision as absolutely correct even if my life had gone down the shitter as a result of it.

pearl · Sep 7, 2018

The Clamp said:
Really sorry to hear of all the bad stuff happening to you. If you had time to text/ email you should have called. Tough break but not a lot you can do now. Either way, join a union. You’ll need it after 29th March next year whatever happens.

They sent an email as it was out of hours. Taking it for granted a bit that receiver of email was at work that day and read it before 10am, but they have found a new job so end of story

nwgull · Sep 7, 2018

Emailing in sick like that in your first week will send alarm bells to an employee about how you might act once your probationary period has been worked. A phonecall would've been so much better.

Still, lesson learned.

Whitechapel · Sep 7, 2018

I was once 2 months in to a friend 3 probation period at a new job when I found out one of my friends had passed away suddenly, age 20. I went in to work on the Monday because I couldn’t afford to lose the job but I was really struggling to hold it together so took my shift leader to one side and whilst holding back tears explained what had happened and asked if I could go home.

He went and spoke to the warehouse manager and was told very clearly that if I left it would be counted as unauthorised abscence and there was a very strong chance I’d lose my job. I ended up staying in for the remainder of my shift. Thankfully my friends funeral landed just after my probation ended so I didn’t even try and book it off. F*ck ‘em

Seagull1989 · Sep 7, 2018

As others have said, you can't really claim unfair dismissal until you have been in the job for 2 years.

I know some people are saying that you should have called in but if you followed their policy and made contact I think it is very unfair. Were you told in advance there was a meeting ? And given an opportunity to take a union rep in with you ?

Thunder Bolt · Sep 7, 2018

Whitechapel said:
I was once 2 months in to a friend 3 probation period at a new job when I found out one of my friends had passed away suddenly, age 20. I went in to work on the Monday because I couldn’t afford to lose the job but I was really struggling to hold it together so took my shift leader to one side and whilst holding back tears explained what had happened and asked if I could go home.

He went and spoke to the warehouse manager and was told very clearly that if I left it would be counted as unauthorised abscence and there was a very strong chance I’d lose my job. I ended up staying in for the remainder of my shift. Thankfully my friends funeral landed just after my probation ended so I didn’t even try and book it off. F*ck ‘em

Now that is harsh. You made the effort to go in and were struggling, unsurprisingly. You should have been given the rest of the day to go home imo.

Tim Over Whelmed · Sep 7, 2018

Seagull1989 said:
As others have said, you can't really claim unfair dismissal until you have been in the job for 2 years.

I know some people are saying that you should have called in but if you followed their policy and made contact I think it is very unfair. Were you told in advance there was a meeting ? And given an opportunity to take a union rep in with you ?

There's no need for either, with that length of service you can simply say "it's not working out from our point of view" and it's goodbye.

Lankyseagull · Sep 7, 2018

As a senior manager, in my opinion, people rely too much on communication by text or e-mail and often this is where they fall down as interpretation of those texts and e-mails is very often not the same between sender and recipient.

As people have said before, a simple phone call to your line manager may have got you a different result, but by putting "I’m going to catch up on sleep, so will not call to talk on this occasion. " has not cut any ice and cost you. If you had spoken directly to the recipient, you may have got a more sympathetic ear that may have resulted in a warning at the most.

While I sympathise with your predicament, put yourself in your ex-employers shoes and consider how it make you look to them. Learn from your mistake and make sure that in any similar circumstance in the future you speak directly to someone to explain your intended absence, not give them a fait accomplis.

Guy Fawkes · Sep 7, 2018

jcdenton08 said:
Some advice please!

I started a new job on Monday, everything going swimmingly. I have a contract.

Yesterday, a close relative of my long term partner underwent major neck surgery, during which there were complications. Having lost her brother to brain cancer earlier this year, her Grandmother a few weeks ago, and my own Father in May, I spent all night counselling her and supporting her.

I was too tired to work, and sent the following email;

“Hello,

I’ll be unable to work today. My partner Lisa lost her brother at the start of the year to cancer, and is very distressed because her sister-in-law yesterday underwent major neck surgery.

I’m fine myself, but spent all night supporting her and don’t feel I’d be much use today, as I am exhausted. I’m going to catch up on sleep, so will not call to talk on this occasion.

Thank you for your understanding - I’ll catch up on anything I miss when I return tomorrow.

Best wishes, C”

Upon arriving first thing this morning I was told my unauthorised absence was unacceptable and that I was being laid off immediately. I have been paid for the current week today.

It was all very amicable. I pointed out that it was unforeseen circumstances and that I’d followed the absence reporting policy, and both sides are required to give 8 weeks written notice as per the contract of employment. The job is a six month contract - the manager told me that I had a 3 month probation which is not mentioned in the contract.

The contract reads;

8. Termination and Notice Period

8.1 - subject to clause 8.2 and 8.3, the prior written notice required from you or the Company to terminate your employment shall be 8 weeks.

8.2 - We shall be entitled to dismiss you at any time without notice or payment in lieu of notice if you commit a serious breach of your obligations as an employee, or if you cease to be entitled to work in the United Kingdom.

8.3 - Your employment shall automatically terminate when you reach such age as May from time to time be determined by the Company to be as the normal retirement age.

I don’t see how missing a day’s work due to a personal emergency, having followed the absence reporting procedure in the contract, is a serious breach of my duties.

What should I do?

Serious answers only please, this is my livelihood. Thank you

The fact you added "I’m fine myself" but e-mail to say you are going to sleep (in) so wont be in to work today reads as i just can't be bothered to attend work today. Add in that you wont be in contact by phone adds to that impression

Basically the e-mail you've sent in is worded so badly that it could be interpreted as you just wanted a day off work and have used a flimsy excuse not to come in, someone having neck surgery, which by itself doesn't seem serious enough to cause the worry for your partner which would lead to you lacking sleep and being to exhausted for work. (you didn't add in that there were complications)

The line about no contact by phone could also have been interpreted as you have other plans or are going somewhere and don't want to be caught out by background noise giving you away should you speak to them over the phone

Both make you seem likely to be someone who would take a day off with minimal justification, and give a 'poor' excuse to explain your actions (* poor in that it seems like a "the dog ate my homework" style excuse not to attend) making you appear unreliable

The background you give before your e-mail would have been a far better thing to have included to your employer as it give merit to the reason why your partner was so distressed and why you had a sleepless night and gives cause to your wanting the day off, and would have potentially have made the employer more sympathetic to you case but in reality, you should have tried to go in or at least set an alarm and rung in around your normal start time to speak directly to your boss to explain and let them decided if you have the rest of the day off or whether they feel you should make your way in asap

Sadly this looks like a lesson learned instance rather than being able to reverse this but if you are serious about wishing to still work there (rather than just looking for a pay off for losing your job) then you should set about trying to convince them that you are worth giving a second chance to through mediation, reconciliation and arbitration and hope they will chalk this off to experience (but this is unlikely to happen) but if this doesn't work, then go to an employment tribunal

However if you are just looking for a pay off, then you will be out of luck as there are minimum periods of employment before unfair dismissal can be contested at a tribunal

For a fixed term contract, you have needed to be in employment for at least a month to get a notice period, which you haven't achieved

Minimum notice period
Fixed-term employees have the right to a minimum notice period of:

1 week if they’ve worked continuously for at least 1 month
1 week for each year they’ve worked, if they’ve worked continuously for 2 years or more
These are the minimum periods. The contract may specify a longer notice period.

If an employer ends a contract without giving the proper notice, the employee may be able to claim breach of contract.
https://www.gov.uk/fixed-term-contracts/renewing-or-ending-a-fixedterm-contract

It may still be worth going to the Citizens Advice Bureau and speaking to someone there who may be able to assist you, good luck

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