[Brighton] Valley Gardens works

Stat Brother · Sep 1, 2018

This caught be slightly by surprise.
I've gone from 'comedy' baiting of motorists to full on campaigner in 2 posts.

I guess I've been spending too long reading Chris Boardman's tweets:-

The £1.5bn masterplan to create UK's biggest cycling and walking network in Greater Manchester

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ing-walking-lanes-greater-manchester-14832995

The 10-year plan would be made up of 1,000 miles of routes, 75 miles of segregated cycle lanes and 1,400 safe crossings - find out what would change in your neighbourhood

and following Danish city planner @urbanthoughts11

Sorrel · Sep 1, 2018

I'm always in favour of more elm planting, so that is a nice part of the scheme.

Westdene Seagull · Sep 1, 2018

New road schemes should benefit all road users - or at the very least not put one group in a worse position. As it is now cars run OK - the cycle lanes are a bit of a mess but work - and as a regular user of buses in that area I can confirm it works perfectly for them. The problem for buses is the narrowing of North Street which has added to congestion, more danger for cyclists and idling buses producing more pollution - something else to thank the Greens for.

The new scheme will benefit cyclists, make no difference to buses and absolutely grind cars to a halt.

wellquickwoody · Sep 1, 2018

Stat Brother said:
Unless I'm mistaken the Council has no say in the price of train and bus travel. (happy to stand corrected)

I don't see this as a 'war against drivers', now who's being aggressive?

I've driven that road more times than I've ridden it, I can't remember a time when it hasn't been shitehouse.
I'd be amazed if any driver on this thread says 'leave it as it is'.

So something has got to change.
More road isn't the answer, it's just not physically practical, and as said that'll just kick the problem down the road (pun intended) for a few years.

The only other answer is less cars.
You can't have less cars with no 'reward' for not using your car.

I see no reason why such a small scheme wouldn't work, if it's done properly.
My fear would be that none of the thinking is joined up, so your bus takes 90% off it's journey time then turns left and is sat in yet more traffic. That appears to be the English way.

The answer for efficiency terms will always be personal motorised transport. Currently this is generally fossil fuel powered, in the future maybe solar or nuclear, and in the not too distant future perhaps via air rather than land based. To think otherwise is just being a luddite.

Stat Brother · Sep 1, 2018

wellquickwoody said:
The answer for efficiency terms will always be personal motorised transport.

Starting a post that wrong can only equal one thing - troll.

Stat Brother · Sep 1, 2018

[tweet]1034129088997478401[/tweet]

Official Old Man · Sep 1, 2018

#Stat Brother
I live in Uckfield and work in Brighton. Public transport is not possible because of my work hours. I admit something has to be done regarding the roads simply because they are congested.
I don't see how cutting the two lanes of busy traffic leaving the seafront down to one lane is going to cut the congestion. I want to go out via Lewes Road but will have to sit in the London Road queue.

wellquickwoody · Sep 1, 2018

Stat Brother said:
Starting a post that wrong can only equal one thing - troll.

You really are worthless of recognition and will become so as far as I am concerned. Conceited, ignorant, rude, holier than thou and completely unable to enter into discussion without believing that your own standpoint is immoveable, I also have my faults before you try that one too. Good day to you Sir.

Stat Brother · Sep 1, 2018

I remember the good times said:
#Stat Brother
I live in Uckfield and work in Brighton. Public transport is not possible because of my work hours. I admit something has to be done regarding the roads simply because they are congested.
I don't see how cutting the two lanes of busy traffic leaving the seafront down to one lane is going to cut the congestion. I want to go out via Lewes Road but will have to sit in the London Road queue.

But you can't have more road, so what do you propose?

It's all very well saying 'this won't work', 'that won't work', what will work?

Official Old Man · Sep 1, 2018

Stat Brother said:
But you can't have more road, so what do you propose?

It's all very well saying 'this won't work', 'that won't work', what will work?

The starting point maybe is to look at where the traffic clogs up. A23 is London Road and A270 is The Level. My guess is that the plan is to limit the amount of cars getting into these roads thus unclogging them, in a similar way to smart motorways. By allowing one car every 10 seconds that car will travel freely. But there will always be the queue of cars to get into that freedom. Valley Gardens will be the clogged up bit all the way back to the seafront and beyond.
How to get around this. To start with look for alternative routes. Eastbourne has the dual carriage ways with all road signs in to town directing cars to the east side. OK, so where can we put a dual carriageway out of Brighton? How about going east and building something Woodingdean way (just an idea as too expensive)? Keep four lanes of traffic and utilise the A270 as an alternative routs to London, although this will need working on. Ditchling road maybe but make a better junction with the A27. Dyke Road could be used with better traffic flow.
At the end of the day cutting four lanes down to two is just dumb.

Stat Brother · Sep 1, 2018

I remember the good times said:
The starting point maybe is to look at where the traffic clogs up. A23 is London Road and A270 is The Level. My guess is that the plan is to limit the amount of cars getting into these roads thus unclogging them, in a similar way to smart motorways. By allowing one car every 10 seconds that car will travel freely. But there will always be the queue of cars to get into that freedom. Valley Gardens will be the clogged up bit all the way back to the seafront and beyond.
How to get around this. To start with look for alternative routes. Eastbourne has the dual carriage ways with all road signs in to town directing cars to the east side. OK, so where can we put a dual carriageway out of Brighton? How about going east and building something Woodingdean way (just an idea as too expensive)? Keep four lanes of traffic and utilise the A270 as an alternative routs to London, although this will need working on. Ditchling road maybe but make a better junction with the A27. Dyke Road could be used with better traffic flow.
At the end of the day cutting four lanes down to two is just dumb.

It is dumb if done in isolation.

I believe making cars the 4th option of travel, not the first, will relieve congestion as well as have considerable benefits to health, happiness and general well being.

As said earlier my problem with this plan is that it's only as good as the surrounding network.
There's no point having an all singing and dancing congestion busting area only to go round the corner into a wall of traffic.

I would like to see this as the first stage of development, I'd like to see 'car free Sundays', and so on.

The easiest way to get around this country is by car, that fine, but the easiest way to get around urban areas has to be anything but cars.

Official Old Man · Sep 1, 2018

Stat Brother said:
It is dumb if done in isolation.

I believe making cars the 4th option of travel, not the first, will relieve congestion as well as have considerable benefits to health, happiness and general well being.

As said earlier my problem with this plan is that it's only as good as the surrounding network.
There's no point having an all singing and dancing congestion busting area only to go round the corner into a wall of traffic.

I would like to see this as the first stage of development, I'd like to see 'car free Sundays', and so on.

Brighton is a tourist town so that's never going to happen. But with parking at £30 a day surely a very good park and ride scheme is the best option, especially with bus lanes being the high priority in town. A real P&R with the cost being that they have to buy an all day bus ticket. The down side to this is that drivers will come in to town in the car, drop off the family and go out again so a family ticket has to be sorted. And with P&R there needs to be a constant stream of buses, not one every 15 minutes but every 5 minutes. Now, where can we park 1000 cars?

Stat Brother · Sep 2, 2018

I remember the good times said:
The starting point maybe is to look at where the traffic clogs up. A23 is London Road and A270 is The Level. My guess is that the plan is to limit the amount of cars getting into these roads thus unclogging them, in a similar way to smart motorways. By allowing one car every 10 seconds that car will travel freely. But there will always be the queue of cars to get into that freedom. Valley Gardens will be the clogged up bit all the way back to the seafront and beyond.
How to get around this. To start with look for alternative routes. Eastbourne has the dual carriage ways with all road signs in to town directing cars to the east side. OK, so where can we put a dual carriageway out of Brighton? How about going east and building something Woodingdean way (just an idea as too expensive)? Keep four lanes of traffic and utilise the A270 as an alternative routs to London, although this will need working on. Ditchling road maybe but make a better junction with the A27. Dyke Road could be used with better traffic flow.
At the end of the day cutting four lanes down to two is just dumb.

Sorry I can't quite leave this alone.
This reply has been floating around my head because I can't really work it, although that might just be my lack of local knowledge.

I keep reading this and thinking all you're proposing is moving the traffic jam further up the road.
Is that right?

Aveacarlin' · Sep 2, 2018

nickbrighton said:
Not once in the video does it mention improving traffic flow. God help the residents of Hannover, Rock Gardens etc as traffic will just use Queens Park Road and Rock Gardens to avoid the area.

Blimey, are the resulting shockwaves from this project expected to reach as far as Germany?

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Aveacarlin' · Sep 2, 2018

larus said:
Or the other way to look at it is that is acts as a deterrent to people coming into the town. Now, you may think thus is a good thing.

For example, I live in Haywards Heath, but if I need to go shopping now I will drive to Bluewater and not go to Brighton as it takes as long to get into Brighton and get parked as it takes to get to Bluewater. Oh, and parking is free there too unlike the rip-off rates in Brighton. So, Brighton shopkeepers/cafes lose my trade and I will be far from the only one, which can’t be good for the local economy. The attitude of Brighton council appears to want to make life difficult/expenses for drivers.

Also, a mate of mine runs a small building company and they avoid (where possible) taking on projects in Brighton as it’s so expensive to do anything. Nowhere for tradesmen to park, permits, etc. All this means that the choices will be restricted for Brighton residents as some firms will decline the work. The ones who will do jobs will be able to charge more as less competition.

You mate has misinformed you. There are traders permits available.

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blue-shifted · Sep 2, 2018

I'm in favour of more cycle and bus lanes .... though this should be a part of a city-wide joined up transport strategy.

Cutting car lanes from 4 to 2. Ok there's the stick for drivers. where's the carrot to get into or around town in other ways?

If we could turn Brighton into a cycling mecca I'd be delighted, but yesterday I cycled to the Amex from Mile Oak, up and down a load of hills in Hove, Fiveways and Hollingdean ... and afterwards I was absolutely bloody knackered. It's going to be tough to convince loads more out of their cars

jonny.rainbow · Sep 2, 2018

Turn Waterhall into a massive car park and build a solar powered monorail to bring people from there to the seafront.

astralavi · Sep 2, 2018

jonny.rainbow said:
Turn Waterhall into a massive car park and build a solar powered monorail to bring people from there to the seafront.

Madrid has city hire electric bikes, which are very good, although no cycle lanes

Stat Brother · Sep 2, 2018

blue-shifted said:
I'm in favour of more cycle and bus lanes .... though this should be a part of a city-wide joined up transport strategy.

Cutting car lanes from 4 to 2. Ok there's the stick for drivers. where's the carrot to get into or around town in other ways?

If we could turn Brighton into a cycling mecca I'd be delighted, but yesterday I cycled to the Amex from Mile Oak, up and down a load of hills in Hove, Fiveways and Hollingdean ... and afterwards I was absolutely bloody knackered. It's going to be tough to convince loads more out of their cars

E-bikes are very much the latest 'thing' in the industry.
If they are out of your price range now, they won't be in a couple of years time.

dejavuatbtn · Sep 2, 2018

It’s all part of the conspiracy to completely muck up the whole of the transport infrastructure of the city. The streets are full of parked vans and mobile homes, parking restrictions move a problem further out to the suburbs, the trains are such a shambles that you are lucky to be able to stand on one, let alone get a seat, it’s not an ideal city to cycle because of the hills, the state of the road surfaces is dire and will never be affordable to repair/replace. The only thing going for it is the bus service - and this will be snarled up by the road works.
With all the political infighting going on, the cuts from central government and the council’s weird decisions on spending priorities I despair for the future of the city.

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[Brighton] Valley Gardens works

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