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[Albion] Dunces to Heroes in a Week . . . How?
- Thread starter Cowfold Seagull
- Start date
Fans here may have, but I doubt Chris did.
Presumably it's a combination of many things that lead to our wildly differing performances, and we'll never fully understand it.
One thing to note is this. At our level most players are capable of great things, but only those who unfailingly do these great things every week end up at a top six side. A good manager at our level has to work on the players' minds that bit more than the manager of a top 6 side. The probability of individual players not being quite right at any moment is higher for a club like us. The manager knows this and this will affect strategy, especially away from home. Simple really. With 'better' players (more consistent, more instructable) the more attacking we will play. Slowly things will change. But not a lot, unless we hit a rich vein and 'step up' as a club.
theboybilly
Well-known member
CH mentioned that we were going to press more this season but instead (at Vicarage Road) it was Albion being pressed. The boot was very much on the other foot yesterday. Can we do it at Anfield? It will be very difficult but we now know we can do it.
As for Watford, they seem to start well most seasons and then tail off. They are a strong team physically and maybe the new manager can address the loss of form but I won't get carried away after wins over a very lacklustre Albion or a Burnley side already subject to European adventures. They looked good against the Albion only after they'd taken the lead, before that they were as guilty of misplaced passing as their opponents in a very scrappy match
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
True, but I can't help thinking there were many on Nsc, who are guilty of similar feelings to Man Utd fans, thinking we really should be beating teams like Watford.
AmexRuislip
Trainee Spy 🕵️♂️
The players know they didn't perform well v Watford, and given there are new signings waiting in the wings to come on, they all had to produce on Sunday v Manure.
Just thinking if we had tonked Watford last weekend, would we have got a similar result v Manure?
Just thinking if we had tonked Watford last weekend, would we have got a similar result v Manure?
Cowfold Seagull
Fan of the 17 bus
- Thread starter
- #28
Last week after Watford, I quoted Kipling
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
It still applies. It's hard to stop buzzing though
I'd also like to point out, we'd probably underestimated Watford, who gave Burnley a bit of a beating yesterday.
True enough, we have always been a funny old team though, and looking back over my thirty odd years of supporting them it has always been thus. I can remember umpteen defeats to some truly awful sides which came completely out of the blue, but equally wins against teams which no one thought we would beat in a million years.
As I said earlier, all part and parcel of why I love the Albion, the completely unexpected!
Cowfold Seagull
Fan of the 17 bus
- Thread starter
- #29
Your latter point is very valid . . . probably not.
I think it's a combination of things, really.
Of course there's the obvious - Watford played better than a lot of fans expected, and united played worse.
While it was bad performance last week, people got carried away about what it meant with regard to the teams ability to play football. They ignored that it was pretty much the same team that kept us up with a couple of games to spare last season. That it was pretty much the same team that outplayed Arsenal and deservedly beat United at home.
It is a team that is still in flux. We have had one season of premier league football and premier league money (the bulk of which becomes available at the end of the season when we know how many games have been televised, which position we finish in). We're not a squad of established, consistent premier league players. The squad is made up of players who have been with us a while, since league one in some cases, since the championship in others. Players that are still growing and developing as players so will have off days as they struggle to reach a consistent level of premier league performance. So they will be up and down in their performance. It's why this team that was so poor against Watford, was also poor against Huddersfield and Liverpool, and also great against West Ham and Arsenal and Man Utd last year.
Some of the potentially better players we've signed this summer are still in the process of bedding in, and the one that made it into the starting line up showed a lack of a relationship with his defensive partner. That's not unexpected, that partnership is formed by playing together and will grow, but as a first match, away, it was always going to be a potential weak spot (and perhaps part of the reason there weren't wholesale changes - we don't want multiple weak spots through the team as a result of multiple poorly formed partnerships throughout the line-up). When you have a bunch of players have an off day and have the added challenge of bedding in a new starter (who is also forced into playing out of position) it's going to be hard to put on a great team performance.
Why did people decide Watford would struggle? It's lazy journalism. They have decent players, some that underperformed last year (including at least one who was starting to come good toward the end of last season. They've had several seasons in the premier league for a reason, and it is foolish to have written them off without any real reason.
We have had one year in the premier league. We are not in a position to 'we should be beating teams like...' any team in the division. Not even the likes of Cardiff, Wolves and Fulham. It is (in some cases hypocritical) arrogance to assume we should be going to Watford and waltzing off with all three points.
As much as they may try to avoid it, and as much lip service as they pay to taking every game as it comes, each game is worth three points, it is always human nature to up your game against opponents you view as a bigger threat, so of course the team will be more up for it against the big six than the rest of the division.
Essentially these all played a part, but the biggest is fan perception - they weren't dunces last week, it was a bad day at the office given too much weight and meaning.
Of course there's the obvious - Watford played better than a lot of fans expected, and united played worse.
While it was bad performance last week, people got carried away about what it meant with regard to the teams ability to play football. They ignored that it was pretty much the same team that kept us up with a couple of games to spare last season. That it was pretty much the same team that outplayed Arsenal and deservedly beat United at home.
It is a team that is still in flux. We have had one season of premier league football and premier league money (the bulk of which becomes available at the end of the season when we know how many games have been televised, which position we finish in). We're not a squad of established, consistent premier league players. The squad is made up of players who have been with us a while, since league one in some cases, since the championship in others. Players that are still growing and developing as players so will have off days as they struggle to reach a consistent level of premier league performance. So they will be up and down in their performance. It's why this team that was so poor against Watford, was also poor against Huddersfield and Liverpool, and also great against West Ham and Arsenal and Man Utd last year.
Some of the potentially better players we've signed this summer are still in the process of bedding in, and the one that made it into the starting line up showed a lack of a relationship with his defensive partner. That's not unexpected, that partnership is formed by playing together and will grow, but as a first match, away, it was always going to be a potential weak spot (and perhaps part of the reason there weren't wholesale changes - we don't want multiple weak spots through the team as a result of multiple poorly formed partnerships throughout the line-up). When you have a bunch of players have an off day and have the added challenge of bedding in a new starter (who is also forced into playing out of position) it's going to be hard to put on a great team performance.
Why did people decide Watford would struggle? It's lazy journalism. They have decent players, some that underperformed last year (including at least one who was starting to come good toward the end of last season. They've had several seasons in the premier league for a reason, and it is foolish to have written them off without any real reason.
We have had one year in the premier league. We are not in a position to 'we should be beating teams like...' any team in the division. Not even the likes of Cardiff, Wolves and Fulham. It is (in some cases hypocritical) arrogance to assume we should be going to Watford and waltzing off with all three points.
As much as they may try to avoid it, and as much lip service as they pay to taking every game as it comes, each game is worth three points, it is always human nature to up your game against opponents you view as a bigger threat, so of course the team will be more up for it against the big six than the rest of the division.
Essentially these all played a part, but the biggest is fan perception - they weren't dunces last week, it was a bad day at the office given too much weight and meaning.
I agree with the general gist of your post, but were people (real people, as opposed to a couple of the fake accounts we have here) really thinking we'd just turn up to Watford and waltz off with the 3 points?
LowKarate
New member
I have it on good authority that Chris removed the Strawberry Angel Delight option from the players lunch menu at the training ground last week and promised not to bring it back until they won a game.
I think yesterday’s performance is now self explanatory.
To be fair, Watford are a top 3 side whilst Man U are just a mid-table side.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
True that.
Maybe I'm over stating it a bit, but it is hard to see people being as angry with last week's performance as they were if they weren't expecting a win. Yeah, the performance was bad, but if you're expecting a loss and see a poor performance and a loss, there tends to be a different response. More of disappointment than anger.
Dolph Ins
Well-known member
I thought the 1st half at Watford was pretty much 50:50. They had chances and so did we (I was convinced that Dales shot had gone in), So maybe we weren't quite so crap as some on here make out. Yes in the second half they out fought us and deserved to win but no we weren't completely crap the whole match.
HalfaSeatOn
Well-known member
Humans not robots comes to mind with all that in built variability.
Cowfold Seagull
Fan of the 17 bus
- Thread starter
- #39
I think we were watching different games!
Maybe we thought we were shaper than we thought. Watford have had a flyer, sometimes it goes like that. It’s just football, never read into first 3-5 games.