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[Misc] Dieppe Anniversary







G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
Can't claim to be an expert but it was a case of sending in guys to an almost certain defeat in order to test capabilities for the later invasion. Given that D-Day worked, then maybe Dieppe was a case of the ends justifying the means?
 




portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,071
Thought this was going to be about school trip early 80s...:moo:
 


jakarta

jakarta

Well-known member
May 25, 2007
15,621
Sullington
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Can't claim to be an expert but it was a case of sending in guys to an almost certain defeat in order to test capabilities for the later invasion. Given that D-Day worked, then maybe Dieppe was a case of the ends justifying the means?
Click to expand...

Almost everything went wrong at Dieppe, conversely almost everything went right on D-Day. Lessons were learned, especially about the absolute need to have air superiority over the invasion beaches and further inland.
 




vegster

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,892
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Can't claim to be an expert but it was a case of sending in guys to an almost certain defeat in order to test capabilities for the later invasion. Given that D-Day worked, then maybe Dieppe was a case of the ends justifying the means?
Click to expand...

Not sure if it was " An almost certain defeat " ... It was more about seeing how difficult it would be to attack and hold a defended port in enemy hands. The plan was to withdraw whatever but losses were terribly high. The only crumbs of comfort were the lessons learned and the fact the Germans had to stretch their forces along a wide area of coastline.
 


Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,526
Gregory2 said:
The Dieppe raid on August 19th 1942

My Grandfather took part in this raid

also I grew up in Newhaven

so August 19th is a date I always remember

nice to see the Canadians return there two years later

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEwplnYf9bA
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Great respect to the courage of your grandfather. Reading into the operation it appeared to be another one of the early fiascos that sent good men into impossible situations. Where was he stationed after that ?
 


G

GREASED WEASEL

New member
Dec 10, 2017
2,893
Brighton Lines said:
Great respect to the courage of your grandfather. Reading into the operation it appeared to be another one of the early fiascos that sent good men into impossible situations. Where was he stationed after that ?
Click to expand...

He went to Italy where he was killed in the battle of Rimini

I visited his grave there a couple of years ago,it was very moving

Sadly one of his brothers was killed in the same week in Normandy

Another brother survived the war and is still alive today
 








portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,071
jakarta said:
Almost everything went wrong at Dieppe, conversely almost everything went right on D-Day. Lessons were learned, especially about the absolute need to have air superiority over the invasion beaches and further inland.
Click to expand...

Almost everything went right on D Day?!! Not according to the scores of books I’ve read on it (bit of a nerd) Please, let me know the title of this unique account you’ve read!
 












faoileán

faoileán

Well-known member
Jan 29, 2021
883
My great aunt came over from Ireland to nurse at Hove Hospital during the war and met a Canadian soldier in Sherrys (inevitably) on West Street. They married at The Sacred Heart, Hove, had a kid, and then he was sent in on the Dieppe Raid and was one of the 907 Canadians who died that day.

Some say that valuable lessons were learnt that made D-Day a success, but it doesn't excuse the stupid amateurish planning and execution of this raid. You literally could not have chosen a worse beach on the whole French coast to try something like this, i.e. a steep pebble beach overlooked by cliffs in front of a garrisoned town. The 27 Churchill tanks couldn't get up the pebbles and machine guns from the cliffs swept the whole landing zone.
 


Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
6,966
portlock seagull said:
Almost everything went right on D Day?!! Not according to the scores of books I’ve read on it (bit of a nerd) Please, let me know the title of this unique account you’ve read!
Click to expand...

Clearly everything didn't go right as thousands died and there was utter chaos and carnage. But I can see what the fella is getting at. For it to be a success (from a historical point of view) lots that could have gone very wrong did go right. Mass bloodshed was inevitable.
 


jakarta

jakarta

Well-known member
May 25, 2007
15,621
Sullington
Nobby Cybergoat said:
Clearly everything didn't go right as thousands died and there was utter chaos and carnage. But I can see what the fella is getting at. For it to be a success (from a historical point of view) lots that could have gone very wrong did go right. Mass bloodshed was inevitable.
Click to expand...

There wasn't 'Mass Bloodshed' - even Bloody Omaha wasn't all that bloody. The Allies got ashore quite easily everywhere else.

From the 6th of June to the 30th of August the Allied Ground Troops in Normandy lost 37,000 dead.

Probably a weeks worth for both sides on the Eastern Front.

As I have previously mentioned Dieppe was a failure in many ways but mostly because the RAF failed to achieve air superiority. In June 1944 they, along with the USAAF, had by then utterly hammered the Luftwaffe and as a consequence the German Army also got hammered from then to the end of the European campaign.

There was apparently a bitter joke amongst German Normandy veterans "If you saw a camouflaged aircraft it was Britsih, if was Silver it was American and it you didn't see it all it was German"
 


K

knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
12,963
The man behind the raid was promoted to Supreme Commander in SE Asia before going on to split India apart.
The Germans learnt as much from the raid as we did.
Massive waste of lives.
 




Barrow Boy

Barrow Boy

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 2, 2007
5,780
GOSBTS
portlock seagull said:
Almost everything went right on D Day?!! Not according to the scores of books I’ve read on it (bit of a nerd) Please, let me know the title of this unique account you’ve read!
Click to expand...

Overlord by Max Hastings is a must read book for anybody interested in the real story of what went on on D-Day and the months following. I thought I had a reasonable knowledge of it but had no idea just how much a close run thing it actually was, quite scary when you read what actually happened. It re-enforces what Stephen Bungay says at the beginning of his masterpiece A Most Dangerous Enemy, about the Battle of Britain, "Battles are won by whichever side makes the least amount of cock ups", (I paraphrased that). Both books are well worth reading if you have an interest in the major offences of WW2.

:thumbsup:
 
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drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,045
Burgess Hill
Nobby Cybergoat said:
Clearly everything didn't go right as thousands died and there was utter chaos and carnage. But I can see what the fella is getting at. For it to be a success (from a historical point of view) lots that could have gone very wrong did go right. Mass bloodshed was inevitable.
Click to expand...

Exactly. However, if you had the same casualty rates on D-Day that we had at Dieppe it would have been a disaster rather than the start of the end of the war.
 


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