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  1. #51
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    This underscores to me what a massive issue this country has with class.

    There are working class pubs and middle class pubs, there are working class streets and middle class streets, there are working class newspapers and middle class newspapers, there are working class schools and middle class schools.

    People don’t ever move between classes and rarely form lasting friendships or relationships across classes. The different classes have very different views of how they see Britain and its place in the world. The two classes hardly ever understand each other’s point of view.

    The classes only really unite over a love of football, but their response to issues is different. (See how Brighton and Burnley fans saw the Jay Rodriguez issue completely differently). Middle class fans can’t understand why you’d sing the Dambusters theme to German fans and working class fans, I’m guessing, can’t understand why middle class fans won’t stick up for their nation.

    Anyway, this is all just my musings. I’ve got no particular thoughts that anything can or should be done about it.

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    • #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by Guinness Boy View Post
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      Firstly it got dragged through the dirt in 1990. Nothing (much) has happened this year. A couple of daft bints on an ambulance and some beer shower injuries but no riots. That *could* change tonight of course but we don't know for sure that it will.

      But for me the answer is that it isn't really a football problem at all, It's all about our culture with alcohol and the fact that expectations get raised sky high by the media and we're whipped in to the sort of herd mentality that had the Doris I saw this morning driving along yelling "3 Lions" out of her car window, tunelessly. We build and we build and evetually the bubble pops to mix a metaphor. No one rioted after we lost to Iceland. We just accepted that we were shit and Roy was shit. THAT was football. Quietly going about your business in the full knowledge that a team you expected to let you down had done so. THIS is so much more. People who don't often go to games, people who'd never heard of Harry Maguire suddenly getting revved up by The Sun and BBC news and tanked up on shit lager and acting like group morons. And, as per my previous post on this thread I don't know that I wouldn't have done the same when I was that age.

      Danny Baker once wrote a brilliant article for the old Sky magazine (not the media company) after the Luton v Millwall battles arguing that there was no real thing as football violence.There was football, sure, and violence. But there was pub violence and domestic violence and gang violence and chip shop violence and taxi rank violence. Football is just another catalyst and the reason it's football and not rugby or tiddlywinks or polo is that football is wildely popular and more so with the young working class.
      I also disagree that it is largely working class people that cause the violence. In my experience and traditionally, the working class have great respect for each other, people who live and work in the area. It's middle class idiots that cause most of the trouble.
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    • #53
      Mama said knock you out. LlcoolJ's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Clamp View Post
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      I also disagree that it is largely working class people that cause the violence. In my experience and traditionally, the working class have great respect for each other, people who live and work in the area. It's middle class idiots that cause most of the trouble.
      Except when the riots happened a few years ago. Which was mainly the underclass. Or Palace fans as some people call them.
    • #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by LlcoolJ View Post
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      Except when the riots happened a few years ago. Which was mainly the underclass. Or Palace fans as some people call them.
      Palace fans come from places like Croydon, Molesey, Walton, Cobham, Sutton etc, all Surrey towns with above average income. But as you say, underclass in many respects.
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    • #55
      Chrissy Hughton Fanboy Guinness Boy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Clamp View Post
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      I also disagree that it is largely working class people that cause the violence. In my experience and traditionally, the working class have great respect for each other, people who live and work in the area. It's middle class idiots that cause most of the trouble.
      I'd be honestly amazed if there was a single middle class Millwall fan in the late 80s, which is specifically what he was talking about. The blokes I watched games with back then were mainly manual labourers or worked on the railway. Today, though, you have to have a bit of wedge to watch football. Whether you have wedge and class is a different story. But if it kicks off tonight if we lose I'm fully expecting more trouble in the likes of Stoke, Birmingham and Manchester than Leamington Spa, Windsor and Beaconsfield.
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    • #56
      Registered loser Megazone's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Clamp View Post
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      I also disagree that it is largely working class people that cause the violence. In my experience and traditionally, the working class have great respect for each other, people who live and work in the area. It's middle class idiots that cause most of the trouble.
      I remember the upper class throwing Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese at anyone looking slightly German plus throwing their empty bottles of Chateau Margaux all over the streets of Brighton that night. Some even went to the lengths of drink-riding their horses around their local golf course urinating in all the holes.

      They disgraced themselves massively that night.
    • #57
      Mama said knock you out. LlcoolJ's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Megazone View Post
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      I remember the upper class throwing Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese at anyone looking slightly German plus throwing their empty bottles of Chateau Margaux all over the streets of Brighton that night. Some even went to the lengths of drink-riding their horses around their local golf clubs urinating in all the holes.

      They disgraced themselves massively that night.
      And that was just Johnson, Osborne and Cameron.
    • #58
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Clamp View Post
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      Palace fans come from places like Croydon, Molesey, Walton, Cobham, Sutton etc, all Surrey towns with above average income. But as you say, underclass in many respects.
      What about Irlam O't'heights or Chipping Sodbury?
      I do not have a professional working knowledge of cricket.
    • #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by LlcoolJ View Post
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      And that was just Johnson, Osborne and Cameron.
      Yes, the judge said that all the witnesses were discredited on account of having low incomes.
      Quote Originally Posted by looney View Post
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      ....and you seem to be hanging around these politics threads for an unhealthy amount of time...
    • #60

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      Quote Originally Posted by Guinness Boy View Post
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      It's all about our culture with alcohol.
      Think that's about the long and short of it.

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