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      Id like to know why the tories took away the stipend or whatever its called that allowed nurses to study for their degree free of charge , disgusting.
    • #43
      We wunt be druv ManOfSussex's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by alfredmizen View Post
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      Id like to know why the tories took away the stipend or whatever its called that allowed nurses to study for their degree free of charge , disgusting.
      Bursary. If you were a care worker in your forties working in The NHS having found your forte, what incentive is there now to train to become a nurse when you're going to get saddled with debt in middle age? Utter stupidity.
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    • #44

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      Quote Originally Posted by ManOfSussex View Post
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      Bursary. If you were a care worker in your forties working in The NHS having found your forte, what incentive is there now to train to become a nurse when you're going to get saddled with debt in middle age? Utter stupidity.
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Gem View Post
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      Something this country should be really proud of. Without doubt the envy of every country in the world.

      Employer ---------------------------------------------------Employees
      United States Department of Defence .................3.2 million
      People's Liberation Army .............................. ...2.3 million
      Walmart .............................. .............................. .....2.3 million
      McDonald's .............................. ...........................1.9 million (Includes Franchises)
      National Health Service .............................. ...........2.1 million
      China National Petroleum Corporation .................1.5 million
      State Grid Corporation of China .........................1.5 million
      Indian Railways .............................. ...................1.4 million
      Indian Armed Forces .............................. ...........1.3 million
      Hon Hai Precision Industry (Foxconn) .................1.2 million
      I suppose by reducing UK demand for McDonalds meals and hence potentially reducing the number of McDonalds employees, arguably NHS staffing numbers and workload would not be under so much pressure.

      There is also a BBC link or statistic somewhere that says patients are not heeding dietary and health advice as quite a large proportion of NHS are overweight and or obese/clinically obese themselves. Which is understandable, given the stress, the ageing of the staff population and the lack of free time they have due to the long hours.

      However, a lot of NHS staff work double, night or weekend shifts to help maximise their income and it is not like the private (non-health) sector where we work extra time for no charge on a professional day basis.

      My insight into the NHS is partially through the eyes of my wife, an NHS matron who leaves for work before 0730 and who rarely returns before 2130 and who has been a ward manager at one of the largest and busiest outer London hospitals for over 20 years .The calculated official bed occupancy rate on her wards is over 100%, such is the demand.

      She has lived through all the " changes" and "rebooting/rebranding" and political and "project/consultancy-driven cost-saving" initiatives over that time, which must seem like GroundHog Day .

      There have been extra layers of "management" and legions of external consultants ( who aren't really consultants - maybe interns) also drafted in to clog the main care processes ( and use up budgets) over that time.

      It all boils down to how many of the critical mass of trained staff required are still dedicated and driven enough to remain sufficiently professional to provide service and cover in increasingly difficult circumstances for what is effectively a tsunami of demand.

      The demands and feedback from users ( and their relatives) changed incrementally when National Insurance contributions were raised in the early 2000s to "fund" the NHS and patients were more critical as a result. Successive governments making the NHS a political football ramped up the mood music further and have put further pressure on staff.

      Another idea would be to take the TV cameras and "celebrities" currently clogging up several hospitals and A &E departments and let the overworked staff get on with their jobs.

      The ageing of the population, the increase in unhealthy living - there is an Italian phrase that describes digging your own grave with your teeth that covers it - the diverse and demanding health challenges from diabetes, makes the NHS a bottomless pit, financially.

      The talk of budget over runs and deficits is farcical; a ward my wife was responsible for exceeded it's dressing/bandages budget in month 5 of the financial year. The only way to stop the overspend would be to let patients bleed to death.

      We pay of lot of money in National Insurance and Income Tax in this country. In Germany and Switzerland you pay considerable deductions and/or insurance premiums, but at least you know where the money is directed to.

      An example of stripping out layers of cost, management and bureaucracy I spotted a while ago ( although cannot recall which country - maybe Switzerland) was schools - particularly primary schools - did not have a "head" teacher and the school was run by the teachers agreeing timetables/budgets/operational details themselves.

      So maybe stripping up a management ( and cost) layer or two would not go amiss.

      A last point - on private hospitals - the private hospital up the road from your NHS hospital probably uses the same consultants, surgeons and anaethesists that work at the NHS trust.

      An elderly neighbour who had a private hip operation contracted an infection that would have been properly screened for at the NHS, and was subsequently bedridden until her eventual death. It was the NHS ambulances ( at NHS cost) that had to come out to her multiple times when she fell out of bed with her frail 90 year old husband unable to remediate the situation on his own.....
      Last edited by mxs_harrow; 05-07-2018 at 19:44.
    • #46
      Glory hunting since 1969 lawros left foot's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by alfredmizen View Post
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      Id like to know why the tories took away the stipend or whatever its called that allowed nurses to study for their degree free of charge , disgusting.
      My daughter finished her Geography degree and decided she would like to train as a midwife (yes, I know), she applied,was accepted, then Cameron’s government decided to end the bursary. My daughter couldn’t afford an extra 25 grand student loan, on top of the 27 she’s already got, so, no midwifery course for her. It’s extremely short sighted
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    • #47
      aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch Westdene Seagull's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by lawros left foot View Post
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      My daughter finished her Geography degree and decided she would like to train as a midwife (yes, I know), she applied,was accepted, then Cameron’s government decided to end the bursary. My daughter couldn’t afford an extra 25 grand student loan, on top of the 27 she’s already got, so, no midwifery course for her. It’s extremely short sighted
      I'm no expert but surely the answer is to tie the students to work for the NHS for x number of years and they get the debt wiped ? Similar to where I work, if I get paid training then I'm tied to the company for x months and if I do leave in that time I pay a percentage of the training costs back.
      The devil whispered in my ear : "You're not strong enough to withstand the storm."
      I whispered in the devils ear : " I am the storm."
    • #48

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      Quote Originally Posted by Harry Wilson's tackle View Post
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      That is total bollocks. Seriously

      At least you admit in a later post "I'm not expert though, probably like most of us."

      I work in a big London teaching hospital (I am a university employee, not a medic, but I teach medics and do medical research). I can assure you it hasn't been privatised. The private public partnership so favoured by Mr Tony is part of the 'flexible and pragmatic' approach that contrasts with the 'nationalise everything' policy of Corbyn, which is so very popular with you and other political sages on NSC (that was irony, btw), and the (secret) 'run it down and flog it off' approach favoursed by any right-thinking tory (a rational outlook, albeit one that I don't share). (How I miss Mr Tony - pragmatic beats doctrinaire every day for me, even if he was a fool in some respects). Mr Tony's approach hasn't eaten much if at all into frontline healthcare delivery as far as I can see, although it affects purchasing and services. That said, where I work the privatised amenities are a vast improvement on what was there before. Of course things like charging an arm and a leg for telephone, TV and parking are mean and cheapskate. But it isn't like we are either forced to sit in our own shit, or rent the bed on an hourly rate. Anyway, I don't think this is supposed to be a politics thread, or a 'who ****ed the NHS the most' thread (it is the tories, by the way, by a country mile, in case you're interested). So I'll say no more.
      I’m not an expert but nor are you. The bit you should have picked up more is the experts who have informed me and shaped my opinion. To dismiss as ‘utter bollocks’ just screams of you raging against the machine probably because of your closer proximity to. Hard to be impartial about anything you’re heavily invested in afterall. And if labour governed over 1000 years of NHS crisis management it would STILL be all the fault of the tories...zzzzzzz (btw, it isn’t...in case you’re interested. So I’ll say no more )
      "Never miss a good chance to shut up"
    • #49
      Harry Wilson's Tackle Harry Wilson's tackle's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by portlock seagull View Post
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      I’m not an expert but nor are you. The bit you should have picked up more is the experts who have informed me and shaped my opinion. To dismiss as ‘utter bollocks’ just screams of you raging against the machine probably because of your closer proximity to. Hard to be impartial about anything you’re heavily invested in afterall. And if labour governed over 1000 years of NHS crisis management it would STILL be all the fault of the tories...zzzzzzz (btw, it isn’t...in case you’re interested. So I’ll say no more )
      Not a good precis or filleting of my post but, whatever. Perhaps you can enlighten me on how labour have destroyed the NHS? And the identity of the experts that have shaped your otherwise naive opinion would interest me. I am not invested in the NHS because I work for it, btw. I don't. I supply some services (teaching) that I can take or leave. I am invested in it because I have used it for 60 years and it is unmatched. I have lived abroad, too, so I have seen how it can be elsewhere.
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    • #50
      Harry Wilson's Tackle Harry Wilson's tackle's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by portlock seagull View Post
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      I’m not an expert but nor are you. The bit you should have picked up more is the experts who have informed me and shaped my opinion. To dismiss as ‘utter bollocks’ just screams of you raging against the machine probably because of your closer proximity to. Hard to be impartial about anything you’re heavily invested in afterall. And if labour governed over 1000 years of NHS crisis management it would STILL be all the fault of the tories...zzzzzzz (btw, it isn’t...in case you’re interested. So I’ll say no more )
      Actually, reading your reply again....wt actual f? I have no idea how it maps onto my post.
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