[Football] Serbia v Switzerland (BBC)

Geestar · Jun 23, 2018

Triggaaar said:
The two main reasons I remember people being against VAR before it arrived were:
1) It will slow the game down, with stopping and starting.
2) It will remove the debating decisions in the pub.

Well 1 hasn't happened, and it looks like there's still plenty to debate, as some decisions are marginal. I love it.

Slightly different to that I think - they shouldn't immediately raise their flag unless sure, but if a goal is then scored, they can then raise their flag even if not sure - so yes, it will get checked by VAR, but what they've avoided is incorrectly raising their flag and stopping play before the ball crosses the line. The perfect option IMO.

I definitely get your point with the offside calls.

But as for VAR, for now it is a no from me. Bringing in a system that still makes this many errors seems crazy to me.

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Triggaaar · Jun 23, 2018

Geestar said:
But as for VAR, for now it is a no from me.

Fair enough.

Bringing in a system that still makes this many errors seems crazy to me.

But it's not the system that makes the errors, it's the people. And honestly, what errors have been made so far? What incorrect decisions have been made because of VAR, that wouldn't have been made without it? There was the France vs Australia one, but I think that was a debatable decision, not a howler. And that's about it isn't it?

Whereas it's resulted in several clearly correct decisions that wouldn't have been made without it.

Geestar · Jun 23, 2018

Triggaaar said:
Fair enough.
But it's not the system that makes the errors, it's the people. And honestly, what errors have been made so far? What incorrect decisions have been made because of VAR, that wouldn't have been made without it? There was the France vs Australia one, but I think that was a debatable decision, not a howler. And that's about it isn't it?

Whereas it's resulted in several clearly correct decisions that wouldn't have been made without it.

Australia Vs Denmark penalty comes to mind

That's 100% of Australian games where VAR has made a mistake. Huge when there are only 3 group games to advance on the world stage.

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Johnny RoastBeef · Jun 23, 2018

Triggaaar said:
Fair enough.
But it's not the system that makes the errors, it's the people. And honestly, what errors have been made so far? What incorrect decisions have been made because of VAR, that wouldn't have been made without it? There was the France vs Australia one, but I think that was a debatable decision, not a howler. And that's about it isn't it?

Whereas it's resulted in several clearly correct decisions that wouldn't have been made without it.

Im a big fan of VAR, and understand the reluctance to award retrospective penalties for the Mitrovic and Kane type of holding fouls. In my opinion, If they started to use it during the World Cup for those fouls we will see 3 or 4 penalties a game, making it a farce.

What will happen in the future is domestic leagues will begin to use VAR and then those type of fouls will start to be pulled up, players will learn not to grapple and the issue will be eradicated over time.

For now the system, although not perfect, is still doing a decent job.

Weststander · Jun 23, 2018

Johnny RoastBeef said:
Im a big fan of VAR, and understand the reluctance to award retrospective penalties for the Mitrovic and Kane type of holding fouls. In my opinion, If they started to use it during the World Cup for those fouls we will see 3 or 4 penalties a game, making it a farce.

What will happen in the future is domestic leagues will begin to use VAR and then those type of fouls will start to be pulled up, players will learn not to grapple and the issue will be eradicated over time.

For now the system, although not perfect, is still doing a decent job.

They were blatant fouls. Cheating.

If officials started awarded pens for those, that type of foul would rapidly decline.

One Teddy Maybank · Jun 23, 2018

Weststander said:
They were blatant fouls. Cheating.

If officials started awarded pens for those, that type of foul would rapidly decline.

This.

VAR either has a place or it doesn’t.
If it cannot be used for blatant fouls then I’m out.

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Johnny RoastBeef · Jun 23, 2018

Weststander said:
They were blatant fouls. Cheating.

If officials started awarded pens for those, that type of foul would rapidly decline.

I agree, but can also see why FIFA are reluctant to implement such strict use at a World Cup. In time, once the officials are more comfortable with the system and players realise that they can no longer get away with the dark arts, things will improve. If there were no VAR, we would be moaning about far more errors. For now, it's a step in the right direction.

Weststander · Jun 23, 2018

Johnny RoastBeef said:
I agree, but can also see why FIFA are reluctant to implement such strict use at a World Cup. In time, once the officials are more comfortable with the system and players realise that they can no longer get away with the dark arts, things will improve. If there were no VAR, we would be moaning about far more errors. For now, it's a step in the right direction.

I understand where you're coming from.

If there has been a behind the scenes decision to ignore all rugby assaults in the box, I hope they're consistent with that to the end of the WC. Should Russia or another FIFA favourite win VAR penalties for exactly later on, that would be telling about FIFA post-Blatter.

Johnny RoastBeef · Jun 23, 2018

Weststander said:
I understand where you're coming from.

If there has been a behind the scenes decision to ignore all rugby assaults in the box, I hope they're consistent with that to the end of the WC. Should Russia or another FIFA favourite win VAR penalties for exactly later on, that would be telling about FIFA post-Blatter.

Indeed. What would be interesting would be a fly on the wall, behind the scenes look at what goes on in the VAR room during a match.

Los Che · Jun 23, 2018

Well, now everything is clear why there wasn't a penalty

Triggaaar · Jun 23, 2018

Geestar said:
Australia Vs Denmark penalty comes to mind

Can you remind me what happened there?

Geestar · Jun 23, 2018

Triggaaar said:
Can you remind me what happened there?

Handball with the player jumping

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Triggaaar · Jun 23, 2018

Geestar said:
Handball with the player jumping

I can't remember it. Was it given, then cancelled, or not given then awarded?

Geestar · Jun 23, 2018

Triggaaar said:
I can't remember it. Was it given, then cancelled, or not given then awarded?

Not given (correctly) then awarded.

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Triggaaar · Jun 23, 2018

Geestar said:
Not given (correctly) then awarded.

Oh. Was it clear cut, and everyone agrees it shouldn't be a penalty. Except for the VAR people and the ref?

EDIT - ok, I've looked it up, and now I remember watching it at the time, and I can see why I've forgotten it. It's debatable. You can argue it should or shouldn't be a penalty. He raises his arms to jump, but at the top of his jump, shouldn't his arms go lower, as he pushes his head higher? You can argue his hand shouldn't still be up there when the ball hits it.

Denmark can argue they've been unlucky, but it's not the worst decision in my opinion.

Geestar · Jun 23, 2018

Triggaaar said:
Oh. Was it clear cut, and everyone agrees it shouldn't be a penalty. Except for the VAR people and the ref?

Certainly wasn't clear and obvious to be overturned.

YouTube might give you an idea.

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Triggaaar · Jun 23, 2018

Geestar said:
Certainly wasn't clear and obvious to be overturned.

Yeah maybe that's a fair way of putting it, but it's still not a terrible decision.

Reading about it online it seems Denmark's coach thinks the penalty was the correct decision.

Geestar · Jun 25, 2018

Triggaaar said:
Yeah maybe that's a fair way of putting it, but it's still not a terrible decision.

Reading about it online it seems Denmark's coach thinks the penalty was the correct decision.

Thoughts on tonight's VAR debacles?

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Hugo Rune · Jun 25, 2018

Geestar said:
Thoughts on tonight's VAR debacles?

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VAR is the star of the World Cup and well on it’s way to ruining it.

Thunder Bolt · Jun 27, 2018

Three Swiss players have been fined over their sign celebrations. Granit Xhaka, Xherdan Shaqiri and Stephan Lichtsteiner were fined by Fifa for their 'double-headed eagle gesture' celebrations in the win over Serbia.

Xhaka and Shaqiri were fined 10,000 Swiss francs (£7,632) and Lichtsteiner was fined SFr5,000 (£3,816)

The gesture made by the players symbolises the Albanian flag, which carries the image of a double-headed eagle.

Xhaka and Shaqiri are ethnic Albanians from Kosovo, where a Serbian crackdown on the Albanian population ended with Nato military intervention in 1999

Swiss fans are crowd funding to pay the fines for them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44615958

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[Football] Serbia v Switzerland (BBC)

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