[Travel] How Thameslink's Timetable Failed - long but good

Guinness Boy · Jun 22, 2018

Still wondering exactly how GTR, Network Rail and the government screwed up the May 2018 timetable implementation? Some brilliant analysis here (warning, it is LONG but worth it especially if you're a transport nerd or do a lot of project work).

https://www.londonreconnections.com...eslink-fails-part-2-the-plan-that-went-wrong/

Let's just say no one comes out of this smelling of roses and it's little wonder Charlie Horton turned his notice in. Not sure I'd be rushing to apply for software jobs at Siemens either.

jaghebby · Jun 22, 2018

Interesting to see the detail and not just the rhetoric behind the chaos. It looks like it won't be resolved very quickly and its hard to see how a nationalised railway would have done any better given the not inconsiderable part played by Ministers, the DfT and network rail in the fiasco!

beorhthelm · Jun 22, 2018

jaghebby said:
Interesting to see the detail and not just the rhetoric behind the chaos. It looks like it won't be resolved very quickly and its hard to see how a nationalised railway would have done any better given the not inconsiderable part played by Ministers, the DfT and network rail in the fiasco!

heresy!

Simster · Jun 22, 2018

beorhthelm said:
heresy!

Not really. Nobody has ever said a nationalised railway would have managed an enormous timetable change any better. There are many aspects of the train shambles that would have been a lot better though, that's for sure.

Ernest · Jun 22, 2018

Simster said:
Not really. Nobody has ever said a nationalised railway would have managed an enormous timetable change any better. There are many aspects of the train shambles that would have been a lot better though, that's for sure.

But an integrated railway might have done so better rather than too many vested interests

beorhthelm · Jun 22, 2018

Simster said:
Not really. Nobody has ever said a nationalised railway would have managed an enormous timetable change any better. There are many aspects of the train shambles that would have been a lot better though, that's for sure.

i think some have. listening to many you'd think the aforementioned government/public groups weren't even involved.

Simster · Jun 22, 2018

beorhthelm said:
i think some have. listening to many you'd think the aforementioned government/public groups weren't even involved.

I can't say I had noticed, but thinking about it, a) it couldn't have gone any worse and b) [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION] makes a good point above.

lost in london · Jun 22, 2018

Started, but a bit long for me.

One genuine question though - why does it take so long to learn a new route? What do you actually have to learn?

deletebeepbeepbeep · Jun 22, 2018

The issues have been know by anoyone who works in the industry for months the only one caught unaware is that useless **** Chris Grayling.

Simgull · Jun 22, 2018

Good read.

Really makes you wonder in an organisation so out of control, with a terrible performance record and a culture of bad decision making how far away we are from a major disaster ie train crash. If you read the history of many of the major industrial accidents Over the last fifty years (flixborough, Bhopal, Chernobyl etc) many of the symptoms are the same - bad leadership, poor performance, poor maintenance and infrastructure and the wrong organisational culture. Worrying.

Ernest · Jun 22, 2018

lost in london said:
Started, but a bit long for me.

One genuine question though - why does it take so long to learn a new route? What do you actually have to learn?

Everything, from length of platforms, speed limits, where signals are to stations and junctions

Ernest · Jun 22, 2018

Simster said:
I can't say I had noticed, but thinking about it, a) it couldn't have gone any worse and b) [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION] makes a good point above.

Ask yourself why in 1988 under BR that the original Thameslink came in with all drivers fully trained and guards as they were needed then as well as all the drivers knowing the new trains needed for it. There were no delays or excuses needed as there were proper railwaymen who needed what was required to get the new timetable up and running on time

Weststander · Jun 22, 2018

Ernest said:
But an integrated railway might have done so better rather than too many vested interests

I agree that probably now a single entity running the whole thing would be best.

But I remember in the 70's and 80's the chaos of British Rail. Not just the well known excuses about leaves or snow. The endless strikes, plus a hatred from commuters toward staff. People who commuted from Kent and Sussex then have told me they could have lynched militant railway workers. Words and more were exchanged.

Ernest · Jun 22, 2018

Weststander said:
I agree that probably now a single entity running the whole thing would be best.

But I remember in the 70's and 80's the chaos of British Rail. Not just the well known excuses about leaves or snow. The endless strikes, plus a hatred from commuters toward staff. People who commuted from Kent and Sussex then have told me they could have lynched militant railway workers. Words and more were exchanged.

I know I was there

jackalbion · Jun 22, 2018

lost in london said:
Started, but a bit long for me.

One genuine question though - why does it take so long to learn a new route? What do you actually have to learn?

One thing that grates me when people talk about trains, is that people think it’s simply pressing a button. To stop a train going at 90mph you have to make the calculations maybe 2-3 miles beforehand, you have to learn a route to gauge stopping distances, hazards, lights and sequences, junctions, as well as making sure everything is being safely operated. It’s a lot more complicated than most people think.

Not Andy Naylor · Jun 22, 2018

deletebeepbeepbeep said:
The issues have been know by anoyone who works in the industry for months the only one caught unaware is that useless **** Chris Grayling.

Correct. Someone I know who works on railway timetables (not these) told me months ago that they didn't have the drivers to make it work.

Ernest · Jun 22, 2018

Not Andy Naylor said:
Correct. Someone I know who works on railway timetables (not these) told me months ago that they didn't have the drivers to make it work.

Someone who works on timetables would have known at least a year ago as they work 2 years or more in advance so the manpower issues would have been known then. It's not like it was a surprise to them, of course once you sack all the experienced timetablers and planners and put kids in there as they're cheaper that is what happens

studio150 · Jun 22, 2018

Chris Grayling surely must fall on his sword given the micro management from his department

beorhthelm · Jun 22, 2018

jackalbion said:
One thing that grates me when people talk about trains, is that people think it’s simply pressing a button. To stop a train going at 90mph you have to make the calculations maybe 2-3 miles beforehand, you have to learn a route to gauge stopping distances, hazards, lights and sequences, junctions, as well as making sure everything is being safely operated. It’s a lot more complicated than most people think.

sounds ideal for automation.

portlock seagull · Jun 22, 2018

Not quite in the same league but tells it’s own story: painting a double yellow line in certain places on our road to create passing spaces congested by commuter parking is now coming up for its second consultation anniversary with no end in sight. We’re talking 30-40m of yellow paint. (Btw, residents unanimous in support because everyone got off road parking anyway)

council has somehow managed to extend this ‘complex’ job into 3 years of (no better word) ‘fannying’ about. I could literally do the job myself, tonight, and be back for the 10 o’clock news. People in the local council ought to hang heads in shame and their mind numbing inability to get stuff done. No wonder they’re openly mocked, it’s right they’re ridiculed. So when it comes to bigger transport issues like operating our railways, is it any wonder the system is shambles? We love to point out problems in this country but no one can ever seem to make a decision let alone fix em. Why? It’s called Government...and we’re shit at it!

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[Travel] How Thameslink's Timetable Failed - long but good

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