[News] Canada legalises recreational cannabis use.

Baldseagull · Jun 20, 2018

btnbelle said:
It would be much better if people didn't take drugs of any kind.

I respect a persons right to choose but that isn't the effect this drug has on everyone. I bought my two up to reject drugs completely. My daughter has never taken them and my son tried once. He was so ill from it that by the time a friend had advised me on the possible cause of his illness and I had chatted with him about it, he was extremely keen to reassure me, he would never touch it or any drug again.

The thing is, I doubt you can be sure about your kids drug use, as it seems you have made them aware you have zero tolerance, they are highly likely to keep it a secret if they do. There is a lot of information out there, they will have friends who use regularly, and they will be in environments where drugs are used if they ever go out for the evening.
A friend of mine was fully sold on the dangers of drugs including cannabis, once he discovered most of what he had been told about cannabis was nonsense, it totally destroyed his belief in the dangers of other drugs and he was taking everything. The illegalisation and stance of just say no does more to create a gateway out of cannabis than legalisation would, if it is legal your kids won't be going to a dealer who may have other products, they will go to a shop, be advised on the strength and typical response to different varieties, and have zero chance of being offered any thing worse.
In the same way that banning Alcohol led to production of ridiculously strong spirits and bad batches that could cost your sight in America, banning of cannabis has led to stronger hybrids and "legal" highs like Spice.

StonehamPark · Jun 20, 2018

Driver8 said:
Only for two nights then picking up an RV and heading for the Rockies! Are the dispensaries easy to find?

I’ll be staying in Hamilton Street.

Ok nice, right in Yaletown. Pretty quiet and only a 5 min walk to the center to Granville etc.
Yep they are v easy to find, but Downtown (especially on Granville), some can appear quite shady and invite some of the homeless/addicted/mental community.
You will have a MUCH nicer experience by finding an upmarket dispensary. My recommendation is Karuna Health Foundation in Kitsilano (4th & Alma).
You can pop by there on your way to UBC, Jericho Beach, Spanish Banks, Wreck Beach, Pacific Spirit Park (you should visit all of these whilst you're in Vancouver, and don't spend much of your time in the City center!).

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Does Granville street still stink of skunk like it did last time I was there (20 months ago)?

Skunk with extra toppings of urine and homelessness.
I hate Granville to be honest. Burrard is a bit nicer, or Robson.

dingodan · Jun 20, 2018

Baldseagull said:
There is a lot of information out there, they will have friends who use regularly, and they will be in environments where drugs are used if they ever go out for the evening. A friend of mine was fully sold on the dangers of drugs including cannabis, once he discovered most of what he had been told about cannabis was nonsense, it totally destroyed his belief in the dangers of other drugs and he was taking everything.

Is a really good point. Young people have decided that everything they are told about drugs isn't trustworthy and should be ignored, because the information put out about Cannabis is so clearly untrue.

We want to get to a position where public advice about the risks of drugs is actually taken seriously and being heeded and respected by young people, but you can only achieve that with honesty, that trust has to be earned, and over many years that trust has been completely lost.

LlcoolJ · Jun 20, 2018

Baldseagull said:
The thing is, I doubt you can be sure about your kids drug use, as it seems you have made them aware you have zero tolerance, they are highly likely to keep it a secret if they do. There is a lot of information out there, they will have friends who use regularly, and they will be in environments where drugs are used if they ever go out for the evening.
A friend of mine was fully sold on the dangers of drugs including cannabis, once he discovered most of what he had been told about cannabis was nonsense, it totally destroyed his belief in the dangers of other drugs and he was taking everything. The illegalisation and stance of just say no does more to create a gateway out of cannabis than legalisation would, if it is legal your kids won't be going to a dealer who may have other products, they will go to a shop, be advised on the strength and typical response to different varieties, and have zero chance of being offered any thing worse.
In the same way that banning Alcohol led to production of ridiculously strong spirits and bad batches that could cost your sight in America, banning of cannabis has led to stronger hybrids and "legal" highs like Spice.

This. It still amazes/infuriates me that people can't understand that prohibition doesn't work. Just look at the facts FFS.

Utter madness to keep repeating the "war on" X, Y or Z when all the other "wars" have proved to be pointless, damaging to society, massively costly and have FAILED.

It seems that finally some politicians are waking up the the facts. History will show this as a massive turning point for the good of society. Unfortunately, while we have a dinosaur like May in charge (well, as PM) we will continue to trail behind on anything progressive.

btnbelle · Jun 20, 2018

Notters said:
I'm not a fan of that sort of statement, because to me it's a bit like saying "many people who have been for a week's hiking in the lake district also like eating chorizo".

But why? All recreational activities have benefits and risks.

What do you think of skydiving or horse riding?

I see your point about people loving a risky lifestyle. I don't skydive etc. either. Guess I am the cautious sort.....

dingodan · Jun 20, 2018

btnbelle said:
Dealers will pedal it to the underage and those who want a stronger product. In time they will undercut the official product which will end up heavily taxed to cover the cost to the health service. Cheap alcohol is available at present but that may change and then a marketplace will open up. Minimum pricing has already been introduced in Scotland and it is just a matter of time.

There have been research which shows it does increase the lung cancer risk. Best not take that the risk.

Many people who take hard drugs have admitted to starting out on Cannabis.

Dealers of Cannabis simply won't exist because dealing in Cannabis requires an investment of time, money and effort, and it simply won't be worthwhile. It's worthwhile today because dealers own the market, there's nobody else you can get it from, and the risks associated with buying and selling it inflates the price and make it, for what it is, very expensive.

I'm sure many people who take hard drugs would admit trying alcohol first, and probably all of them started on milk. A causal relationship from one to the other has no basis in scientific evidence, and it isn't logical. There is no pharmacological component of this or any other substance which predisposes people who use it to the use of something else. The only real gateways which exist are social and have to do with exposure to other drugs, there is no greater gateway than a drug dealer.

The best available evidence says that Cannabis doesn't increase the risk of lung cancer. Even if it did pose that increased risk (which it doesn't according to the evidence), the inhalation of smoke is not essential for Cannabis consumption. It can be eaten, or most likely vaporized, meaning that no burning of plant material or inhaling smoke is required at all. If the best example of a health risk of Cannabis is one which is not actually inherent to the substance but is a product of one form of delivery, that goes some way to demonstrating what a lack of demonstrable risks that there actually are. & like I said, even that risk is not supported by the scientific evidence anyway.

btnbelle · Jun 20, 2018

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Compred with tobacco it seems the cancer risk is low

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4262725/

My expectation is that the cancer risk from smoking cannabis will turn out to be much the same as for tobacco. It took Richard Doll a long time to get the evidence for tobacco. The study cited above is somewhat contorted so noise may contaminate the signal....

But it is not the case it is established the lung cancer risk is higher than for tobacco. Sorry.

As for 'gateway' drug, I disagree. There are people who will start with cannabis and move on to other things. But there is no evidence that if cannabis did not exist these people would stick to a pint of mild and a packet of smokey bacon crisps. Moreover they will all have drunk alcohol before other things, so the 'real' gateway drug is booze by this logic.

It has a higher risk of lung cancer than not smoking it at all.

Alcohol would not be made legal today if it held the same status as any drug.

If we had proper treatment for those who suffer anxiety, stress and depression then it would not be needed to take risks with any legal or illegal substances.

btnbelle · Jun 20, 2018

Baldseagull said:
The thing is, I doubt you can be sure about your kids drug use, as it seems you have made them aware you have zero tolerance, they are highly likely to keep it a secret if they do. There is a lot of information out there, they will have friends who use regularly, and they will be in environments where drugs are used if they ever go out for the evening.
A friend of mine was fully sold on the dangers of drugs including cannabis, once he discovered most of what he had been told about cannabis was nonsense, it totally destroyed his belief in the dangers of other drugs and he was taking everything. The illegalisation and stance of just say no does more to create a gateway out of cannabis than legalisation would, if it is legal your kids won't be going to a dealer who may have other products, they will go to a shop, be advised on the strength and typical response to different varieties, and have zero chance of being offered any thing worse.
In the same way that banning Alcohol led to production of ridiculously strong spirits and bad batches that could cost your sight in America, banning of cannabis has led to stronger hybrids and "legal" highs like Spice.

I am very close to my adult children. My daughter has rejected the company of former friends who have attempted to take the drug in her presence and they both hold my anti drug stance. The boy who introduced my son to the drug is no longer a friend. The then friend, poor child had parents who smoked this drug and he was curious and stole it from his parents.

StonehamPark · Jun 20, 2018

btnbelle said:
I see your point about people loving a risky lifestyle. I don't skydive etc. either. Guess I am the cautious sort.....

Do you consider a person who consumes cannabis as having a risky lifestyle?

It has a higher risk of lung cancer than not smoking it at all.

Ridiculous statement, again.
You have a higher risk of colon cancer by living entirely on a red meat diet rather than not eating at all.
You have a higher risk of liver failure by drinking wine than not drinking at all.
You have a higher risk of heart failure by consuming bad fats than not eating at all.
You have a higher risk of diabetes by having sugar with your coffee than no coffee at all.

Alcohol would not be made legal today if it held the same status as any drug.

I suppose you have no knowledge of the USA between 1920-1933. Never heard of Al Capone?

If we had proper treatment for those who suffer anxiety, stress and depression then it would not be needed to take risks with any legal or illegal substances.

Do you think SSRI inhibitors are widely a positive treatment for those that suffer with Anxiety, Stress or Depression?
What are you thoughts regarding the findings of SSRI medication being present in over 30 young killers (and mass shooters) recently in the USA?

- I would love to hear your educated response.

btnbelle · Jun 20, 2018

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I am not advocating a free for all, and certainly cannabis should be controlled like alcohol. However the statements you make are false or baseless. And importanty cannabis is nothing like as addictive as alcohol or tobacco. I used to smoke it a lot (student). Like all my contemporaries, now, as then, we can take it or leave it. The last time I had it was at a mate's stag weekend, and he's been divorced and remarried since then. But like loads of people I know, kicking the fags has been a hard slog. I am not there yet. And my drink consumption has steadily increased over the last 20 years. I am entirely typical. The only long term dope smoker I know was a heavy drinker who was told to stop drinking or die. He switched to dope in his late 50s and leads a much more orderly life now. I know these are anecdotes, but it is possible to talk an awful lot of bollocks about cannabis. I remember the TV news reporting on 'Zaire rebels, murdering women and children, their faces bloated with cannabis'. Load of old bollocks. I suspect the reason we have booze and ciggies widely available now is because way back when, people like you said it was ungodly to smoke, and that if you drink then the devil will suck the aether out of your soul. There may be real risks from smoking dope (especally if at high risk of schzophrenia) but scaremongering and patently false statements will be counterproductive.

I appreciate your point of view but I prefer a stance which works for my family. I don't do the god thing at all. I am against that even more than drugs....

I don't smoke but do drink moderately. I guess there is research to support any argument for any subject these days.

btnbelle · Jun 20, 2018

StonehamPark said:
Do you consider a person who consumes cannabis as having a risky lifestyle?

Ridiculous statement, again.
You have a higher risk of colon cancer by living entirely on a red meat diet rather than not eating at all.
You have a higher risk of liver failure by drinking wine than not drinking at all.
You have a higher risk of heart failure by consuming bad fats than not eating at all.
You have a higher risk of diabetes by having sugar with your coffee than no coffee at all.

Do you think SSRI inhibitors are widely a positive treatment for those that suffer with Anxiety, Stress or Depression?
What are you thoughts regarding the findings of SSRI medication being present in over 30 young killers (and mass shooters) recently in the USA?

- I would love to hear your educated response.

Q1 Yes

Q2 Yes I agree there are other risks that exist in society. Smoking weed adds to your current lifestyle risk.

Q3 No I think anti depressants are not always the answer. For some they work... The right therapy for mental health is best monitored by a professional. Unfortunately I appreciate there is very poor access to the correct treatment for mental health issues like chronic stress, anxiety and depression.

Driver8 · Jun 20, 2018

StonehamPark said:
Ok nice, right in Yaletown. Pretty quiet and only a 5 min walk to the center to Granville etc.
Yep they are v easy to find, but Downtown (especially on Granville), some can appear quite shady and invite some of the homeless/addicted/mental community.
You will have a MUCH nicer experience by finding an upmarket dispensary. My recommendation is Karuna Health Foundation in Kitsilano (4th & Alma).
You can pop by there on your way to UBC, Jericho Beach, Spanish Banks, Wreck Beach, Pacific Spirit Park (you should visit all of these whilst you're in Vancouver, and don't spend much of your time in the City center!).

Skunk with extra toppings of urine and homelessness.
I hate Granville to be honest. Burrard is a bit nicer, or Robson.

Many thanks for that information. I’m really looking forward to visiting Vancouver and wish I had a few more days there.

dingodan · Jun 20, 2018

btnbelle said:
It has a higher risk of lung cancer than not smoking it at all.

Even that might not be true. According to Dr. Donald Tashkin, Pulmonologist at UCLA who authored a study on the subject*, people who smoke Cannabis have a slightly lower risk of lung cancer than non-smokers.

You can hear him talk about about this and why it might be here:

*https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060526083353.htm

StonehamPark · Jun 20, 2018

btnbelle said:
Q1 Yes

What risk would you consider that I am taking, if I consume 1mg of cannabis spray each evening?

Q2 Yes I agree there are other risks that exist in society. Smoking weed adds to your current lifestyle risk.

There is a risk in every single thing a person can do.
There is a MUCH higher risk in certain legal things available to you.

Q3 No I think anti depressants are not always the answer. For some they work... The right therapy for mental health is best monitored by a professional. Unfortunately I appreciate there is very poor access to the correct treatment for mental health issues like chronic stress, anxiety and depression.

What is your opinion the recent studies relating to Cannabis and Psilocybin, both being a viable natural alternative to the current chemical option?

Do you have any family members who suffer from seizures or epilepsy? How would you feel about Cannabis being a natural and effective way to treat (and possibly even cure) it?

StonehamPark · Jun 20, 2018

Driver8 said:
Many thanks for that information. I’m really looking forward to visiting Vancouver and wish I had a few more days there.

No worries

Give me a shout if you need any tips on places/things to see etc.

btnbelle · Jun 20, 2018

StonehamPark said:
What risk would you consider that I am taking, if I consume 1mg of cannabis spray each evening?

There is a risk in every single thing a person can do.
There is a MUCH higher risk in certain legal things available to you.

What is your opinion the recent studies relating to Cannabis and Psilocybin, both being a viable natural alternative to the current chemical option?

Do you have any family members who suffer from seizures or epilepsy? How would you feel about Cannabis being a natural and effective way to treat (and possibly even cure) it?

Q1 You are consuming an illegal product. It is illegal for a reason.

Q2 I agree, there is risk in many legal things.

Q3 I agree with people who have health conditions receiving treatment on the NHS. It was in my first post (no 4) that I hold this opinion.

btnbelle · Jun 20, 2018

dingodan said:
Even that might not be true. According to Dr. Donald Tashkin, Pulmonologist at UCLA who authored a study on the subject*, people who smoke Cannabis have a slightly lower risk of lung cancer than non-smokers.

You can hear him talk about about this and why it might be here:

*https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060526083353.htm

I don't believe him. You can find a piece of evidence to support any argument.

StonehamPark · Jun 20, 2018

btnbelle said:
Q1 You are consuming an illegal product. It is illegal for a reason.

I'm not consuming an illegal product.
It has been made legal for medical purposes for very good reason.

Q2 I agree, there is risk in many legal things.

So your point is moot.

Q3 I agree with people who have health conditions receiving treatment on the NHS. It was in my first post (no 4) that I hold this opinion.

You didn't really answer this point, just contradicted yourself.

You clearly have extremely limited knowledge (and no personal experience) on the subject.
It seems as though you 'don't like the idea of it' and have heard bad things from other people who also 'don't like the idea of it', and thus the circle of uneducated opinions continues.

Driver8 · Jun 20, 2018

StonehamPark said:
No worries
Give me a shout if you need any tips on places/things to see etc.

Thanks I may well do that! Actually, is there a whale watch trip you would recommend?

StonehamPark · Jun 20, 2018

Driver8 said:
Thanks I may well do that! Actually, is there a whale watch trip you would recommend?

Ooh, nope, but that is something I am looking to do this Summer without a doubt.
I'm going to do some research and see which ones are recommended.

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