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[Politics] The Battle For Britain's Heroes



alfredmizen

Banned
Mar 11, 2015
6,342
On C4 at the moment.

How should we deal with heroes dark pasts?

Churchill's affirmed racism and Nelson's advocacy of slavery can surely not just be ignored...?

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piss off mate
 






dangull

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2013
5,110
A war against Fascism, fought within living memory, which had we not won it would probably mean that there would be no internet as we know it and certainly no NSC for you to spout on. But do carry on.
I Doubt that would have happened and German would not be the language of today either. The British Empire colonised many countries in the past, and like the Eastern part of the Soviet Union, they are now independent in the modern world.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
300 years ago every country in the world had slaves. Britain was no exception.
We were one of the first to abolish it, so put another statue up to William Wilberforce, problem sorted.
 






looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
I'm interested to see how this goes in America. There is an (understandable) backlash against Southern civil war figures - but what's the real social difference between George Washington and Robert E Lee? Washington was a slave-owner, are the Americans going to tear down every monument to Washington and rename their capital Potomacville?

Its the same but different. All this deconstructionism just reduces everything to shit. The difference is winners get to brag and losers need to suck it up. The south doesn't need so many prominent participation trophies that concern events in antiquity. Obama had a point about it belonging in museums, leave a few statues up for the saddos to worship and every bodies happy.
 


Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..
If you read the full proper academic studies and biographies, the negative issues with their subjects are taken into account as well as the positives. Nobody is all good or all bad - Churchill was a British imperialist (his views on India as part of the Empire were reactionary even in the 1930s), but also a strong opponent of German imperialism in Europe. He was a progressive social reformer in the 1910s, but a reactionary Chancellor of the Exchequer (his return to the gold standard was not a success), and like many of his generation a racist (certainly by todays standards). If his policy of rearmament had been adopted, much of the British economic ills of the 1930s might have been avoided by increased spending. A character of complete contrasts.

All goes to show you can have your cake and eat it.
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,886




vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,886
300 years ago every country in the world had slaves. Britain was no exception.
We were one of the first to abolish it, so put another statue up to William Wilberforce, problem sorted.

We still have slaves, now they are on zero hours contracts or if they are lucky, Minimum Wage.
 


Blue3

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2014
5,567
Lancing
The truth is nobody is perfect Mahatma Gandi and Nelson Mandela were both a terrorist before becoming World leaders/icons
Mother Theresa left children to die in the gutter while at the same time providing the warmth of human company at the moment of death we as they all make decisions in life that if seen in the whole would cloud how we are perceived by others in history
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
We still have slaves, now they are on zero hours contracts or if they are lucky, Minimum Wage.

A silly analogy as slaves were born into slavery, and no choices.

There are modern slaves in the sex industry if you want to draw attention to that issue. Girls who are promised legitimate jobs in the UK, who find themselves trapped here without passports.
My church works with the police to help them.
 




vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,886
A silly analogy as slaves were born into slavery, and no choices.

There are modern slaves in the sex industry if you want to draw attention to that issue. Girls who are promised legitimate jobs in the UK, who find themselves trapped here without passports.
My church works with the police to help them.

Yes, very silly,mind you, you don't work for my company, goodnight.
 


symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
Just watched it. It brought up Churchill mentioning savage Indians and their awful religions but we have to bear in mind that we are talking about Islam not just Indians, and the Hnidu tradtion of burning widows with their dead husbands that was practiced, he may have had a point?
 


GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,705
Gloucester
Just watched it. It brought up Churchill mentioning savage Indians and their awful religions but we have to bear in mind that we are talking about Islam not just Indians, and the Hnidu tradtion of burning widows with their dead husbands that was practiced, he may have had a point?

Sssshhh! You mustn't say that!
 




carlzeiss

Well-known member
May 19, 2009
5,843
Amazonia
Just watched it. It brought up Churchill mentioning savage Indians and their awful religions but we have to bear in mind that we are talking about Islam not just Indians, and the Hnidu tradtion of burning widows with their dead husbands that was practiced, he may have had a point?

[yt]TMY2YV9WucY[/YT]
 




Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
This is worth a watch too. 1,400 years of Islamic African slavery and sex trade: https://youtu.be/jmDaAWZ8A1E

We only ruled the waves from about 1710 when we mastered the art of ship building, and were last in on the slave trade, but first to ban it.

Yes, the ships arrived in ports of the west coast of Africa, where some Africans sold slaves for shipping, that they'd captured from inland tribes.
 






portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,067
Yep and the Turkish Barbary pirates used to raid our Cornish shores and ships for booty and slaves during the 16th and 17th centuries. Thousands of people were taken apparently.

Not forgetting Ancient Egyptians, those pyramids weren’t built by tens of thousands of freelance stone masons. It’s disgusting how Mo Salah is being hero worshipped around the world when really he ought to be atoning for the sins of his ancestors and paying compensation to victims descendants...Salah OUT! (for up to 3 weeks apparently :) )
 


portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,067
Yep and the Turkish Barbary pirates used to raid our Cornish shores and ships for booty and slaves during the 16th and 17th centuries. Thousands of people were taken apparently.

Hang on, that’s English people being enslaved right, which doesn’t fit with the self loathing liberal narrative here so can’t you just take your historical facts and do one instead?
 


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