[Football] Salah/Ramos: Not sure this is going away.

sjamesb3466 · May 30, 2018

Surely reacting to and punishing the injury rather than the actual foul is exactly what Mike Dean did in the whole Middlesbrough debacle? Foul yes and a yellow card. Retrospective action, no chance. Sour grapes from Liverpool.

Johnny RoastBeef · May 30, 2018

sussex_guy2k2 said:
It suggests that poor coaching is the reason for that mistake, and no amount of pep talk gets around a technical error.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. Just googled who is their keeping coach and it looks like the same guy has been in that role since Brendan Rodgers. So this guy has overseen the demise of Reina at Liverpool, he recommended Simon Mignolet and has coached Karius. All three have been accused of a lack of concentration. Could that be down to bad coaching?

gordonchas · May 30, 2018

DavidinSouthampton said:
But it wasn't dealt with by the referee - not adequately, anyway.

I heard Frank Lampard comment at half time that these things will happen when people get "intertwined". But for me and everyone I was watching it with it was Ramos who was doing all the intertwining, which seemed to be borne out by seeing it replayed several times, and all the still pictures in the papers on Sunday. My daughter described it as a judo throw. Nasty and cynical and deliberate.

All players use the arm to fend off or hold opponents, Look at this picture and you will see it's Salah who "intertwines" first. There's no way Ramos was letting him get away from him when he fell either, but it's a freak accident.

gordonchas · May 30, 2018

DavidinSouthampton said:
In the first 20 minutes or so with Salah on the pitch, Liverpool dominated the game and all the possession and shots stats backed that up. When he went off, all that changed. Taking him out made a huge difference.

There were 4 people watching the match in our house, three of whom are professed Liverpool haters and wanted Real Madrid to win before the match started. That incident changed their minds.

Liverpool's plan in these games always seems to be use the "gegenpress" to blitz teams and get a lead so they can then play on the counter attack. I'm pretty sure Real Madrid knew that which is why the opening was cagey.

For all their pressure they created one solitary chance in that period and that fell to the right back.

Liverpool always fall away after these high energy starts, just as they did against Roma and against Man City in the league, almost losing their unassailable leads.

That's not just a feature of Klopp's Liverpool it was a feature of Klopp's Dortmund. There is an analysis of his record in finals that's quite telling and quoting from that:
"At half-time in cup finals, Klopp's teams are up 5-4. At full-time after extra-time, they're down 16-10. Twice his sides have taken the lead in finals, only to go on and concede 3 and lose. Three times, his sides have leveled from behind, only to go on and lose."

So Salah or not, Real Madrid taking charge of the game was always going to happen. The only question was whether they would be level or behind and Liverpool didn't get the early goal, or look like getting it.

Exile · May 30, 2018

sussex_guy2k2 said:
I’m not blaming the keeper and I agree re Salah. You could feel the game shift the moment he went off and they became too predictable offensively. But that’s not surprising as that squad should never have been near a Champions League final - they’ve massively overachieved!

I still think people are overreacting re going to the keeper. That pretty much never happens after a keeper makes a mistake. These are professionals after all - they are paid handsomely and brought up to put these mistakes behind them within an instant, especially goalkeepers. A pep talk does nothing if the person making the mistake isn’t the type who stews on their mistakes. And if they are that type, they probably shouldn’t be playing football at that level, let alone in goal. Plus, the second mistake was a simple technical error, one of which Liverpool’s goalkeepers have been suffering from for a number of years. It suggests that poor coaching is the reason for that mistake, and no amount of pep talk gets around a technical error.

It doesn't matter whether it would have 'made a difference'. It was the decent thing to do. Not only did his team-mates ignore him at the time of the errors, they ignored him at the final whistle too. It was left to Bale and a couple of other Real players to help him up and console him.

The Liverpool team hung him out to dry, and it reflects very badly on their team spirit.

sussex_guy2k2 · May 30, 2018

Exile said:
It doesn't matter whether it would have 'made a difference'. It was the decent thing to do. Not only did his team-mates ignore him at the time of the errors, they ignored him at the final whistle too. It was left to Bale and a couple of other Real players to help him up and console him.

The Liverpool team hung him out to dry, and it reflects very badly on their team spirit.

The Madrid players went around to the team they'd just beaten to the European Cup. They went around to ALL the Liverpool players. It's just a form of sportsmanship, like shaking someone's hand after a game. I honestly just don't get this faux outrage about them not going up to him. I mean do you expect someone to come up to you and console you or give you a pep talk/big hug after you make a mistake at work?

Exile · May 30, 2018

sussex_guy2k2 said:
The Madrid players went around to the team they'd just beaten to the European Cup. They went around to ALL the Liverpool players. It's just a form of sportsmanship, like shaking someone's hand after a game. I honestly just don't get this faux outrage about them not going up to him. I mean do you expect someone to come up to you and console you or give you a pep talk/big hug after you make a mistake at work?

if I made mistakes of that magnitude - with such consequences, then yes, I'd expect some support. And I'd get it, because my colleagues are not all pricks.

sussex_guy2k2 · May 30, 2018

Exile said:
if I made mistakes of that magnitude - with such consequences, then yes, I'd expect some support. And I'd get it, because my colleagues are not all pricks.

You and I have very different experiences of people and the workplace.

Exile · May 30, 2018

sussex_guy2k2 said:
You and I have very different experiences of people and the workplace.

Maybe we don't work at the same place? :shrug:

I'm also a goalkeeper, at a reasonable amateur level. Ive made my share of errors over many years, and have never been shunned by a whole team like that. Shocking, IMO

sussex_guy2k2 · May 30, 2018

Exile said:
Maybe we don't work at the same place?

I'm also a goalkeeper, at a reasonable amateur level. Ive made my share of errors over many years, and have never been shunned by a whole team like that. Shocking, IMO

That was my point. You have a much more optimistic outlook on peoples' treatment of others, whereas based on my life experiences, I don't have the same expectation. I guess it feeds your faux outrage.

Playing football for fun is a very different thing. I'm sure you've also had experiences of people being pi**ed off at you for making a massive mistake, even if they haven't said it to your face. However, that's all conjecture because I've not witnessed your experiences. What I have witnessed are plenty of professional keepers making mistakes over the years and very very rarely do you seem team mates go over and console said keeper. Bayern didn't do it after Ulrich's semi final mistake, Stoke didn't do it after Butland's Leicester howler... but there wasn't such uproar. It's almost getting to a stage where it seems like people are desperate to have a dig at Liverpool :tantrum:

Kinky Gerbil · May 30, 2018

Just read it was only a strain?

DavidinSouthampton · May 30, 2018

gordonchas said:
All players use the arm to fend off or hold opponents, Look at this picture and you will see it's Salah who "intertwines" first. There's no way Ramos was letting him get away from him when he fell either, but it's a freak accident.
View attachment 97279

Fair enough........

Kinky Gerbil · May 31, 2018

https://coconuts.co/jakarta/news/li...horrific-tackle-liverpool-hero-mohamed-salah/

They are a different breed

Mo Gosfield · May 31, 2018

gordonchas said:
Liverpool's plan in these games always seems to be use the "gegenpress" to blitz teams and get a lead so they can then play on the counter attack. I'm pretty sure Real Madrid knew that which is why the opening was cagey.

" Gegenpress "......" Blitz ".....what next?....." Panzer movement "

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[Football] Salah/Ramos: Not sure this is going away.

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