[Sussex] monks farm planning

clapham_gull · Oct 4, 2018

I've just had a huge development the other side of my garden fence but I'm one of those people who don't care what happens the other side of my fence.

My neighbour however does, although his property is surrounded by trees.

He asked ME to object on the basis that it affected ME not him.

A CLASSIC example of something getting offended on behalf of someone else...

.. I think.

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Uter · Oct 4, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
Migration is in the thousands not millions. It also includes foreign students who go back home after completing their studies.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

Population increases have far more to do with better health, lower infant mortality and people living longer.
Tell the doctors to allow us to smoke, drink and laze around more.

Also worth pointing out that works out to approximately a rather less scary 0.7% annual increase over that 21 year period. The population of the UK barely increased at all in the 1970s and 80s yet house building was still required, presumably to meet the demand resulting from the growing trend to live alone.

Bold Seagull · Oct 4, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
Migration is in the thousands not millions. It also includes foreign students who go back home after completing their studies.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

Population increases have far more to do with better health, lower infant mortality and people living longer.
Tell the doctors to allow us to smoke, drink and laze around more.

True because our actual fertility rate is a shrinking population at 1.8 births per women.

Need for housing is also a change in how we live. Gone are the family homes and sticking around until marriage, we now have more people wishing to own their homes rather than effectively sharing with family or a partner. Interestingly, prices have changed this to a degree that many single people and couples etc. are seeking HMOs which has been a big growth area for investors and developers.

I see posts regarding reducing our population, we're too full etc. but the fact remains in a global economy, economic growth goes hand in hand with population growth. If the economy grows, we create more jobs, businesses need more workers, service industries have more customers and need more people. With a fertility rate of 1.8, we rely on migration for this. Even as recently as the last decade countries like Australia were, and maybe still are offering cash incentives for families to have more than 2 children. Who looks after an ageing population if there are more old people than there are young people contributing to the economy. Hence why Germany as an example have been happy to take in migrants, they've seen that as an economic advantage, not just a humanitarian duty. Unless there is a new economic paradigm, anyone thinking we'll just reduce our immigration and our economy will still grow is deluded.

DarrenFreemansPerm · Oct 4, 2018

PoG said:
Do you not think it'll be an improvement on the traffic lights currently in place? I would have thought the majority of the traffic will be flowing east to west and vice versa so would assume the traffic flow will be improved.

Heading Eastbound there’s likely to be an improvement, Westbound will likely see no improvement unless there’s a substantial upgrade to Lancing Manor roundabout.

Not Andy Naylor · Oct 4, 2018

Bold Seagull said:
True because our actual fertility rate is a shrinking population at 1.8 births per women.

Need for housing is also a change in how we live. Gone are the family homes and sticking around until marriage, we now have more people wishing to own their homes rather than effectively sharing with family or a partner. Interestingly, prices have changed this to a degree that many single people and couples etc. are seeking HMOs which has been a big growth area for investors and developers.

I see posts regarding reducing our population, we're too full etc. but the fact remains in a global economy, economic growth goes hand in hand with population growth. If the economy grows, we create more jobs, businesses need more workers, service industries have more customers and need more people. With a fertility rate of 1.8, we rely on migration for this. Even as recently as the last decade countries like Australia were, and maybe still are offering cash incentives for families to have more than 2 children. Who looks after an ageing population if there are more old people than there are young people contributing to the economy. Hence why Germany as an example have been happy to take in migrants, they've seen that as an economic advantage, not just a humanitarian duty. Unless there is a new economic paradigm, anyone thinking we'll just reduce our immigration and our economy will still grow is deluded.

Not to mention needing a young, healthy workforce paying taxes to fund the pensions of the ageing baby-boomers.

PoG · Oct 4, 2018

DarrenFreemansPerm said:
unless there’s a substantial upgrade to Lancing Manor roundabout.

See for yourself http://194.165.12.116/NorthgatePublicDocs/02129222.pdf. I'm not sure if this will be an improvement or not.

golddene · Oct 4, 2018

PoG said:
Do we think this going through could increase the chances of a bypass?

Er....... I recall this particular stretch of dual carriageway in its inception was actually named Shoreham bypass!!!
I also think I recall that the continuation of this er "bypass" was shelved partly due to NIMBY's not wanting further road improvements ( new carriageways ) built to the west ??

LamieRobertson · Oct 4, 2018

The Clamp said:
NIMBYISM. Hmm. Why would somebody not object to a 6/7 storey building being erected 7 metres in front of their house? Where once was sunlight and a river view is now 24 hour shadow and a view of the entrance to an underground car park. That’s not acceptable.

Is this the building you are referring too? fits in nicely with its surroundings

Triggaaar · Oct 4, 2018

beorhthelm said:
if not Lancing or Shoreham, if no high rises, where do you suggest we house people?

Not in my back yard :yawn:

Triggaaar · Oct 4, 2018

worthingseagull123 said:
This whole development is about greed. Pure and simple.

You could say that about 90% of developments. Most of us are living in houses built by a landowner who was accused of being greedy.

Worthing exile · Oct 4, 2018

People in Adur should now ask their Councillors to use Housing Reserves to buy some of the Monks Farm housing. This is one way to help local people get housing.

schmunk · Oct 4, 2018

I live in a newish house built on a greenfield site. Local people campaigned against the development, saying it would block their lovely view of the valley, which it did.

I have a lovely view of the valley from my house.

DarrenFreemansPerm · Oct 4, 2018

PoG said:
See for yourself http://194.165.12.116/NorthgatePublicDocs/02129222.pdf. I'm not sure if this will be an improvement or not.

I’d guess that the improvements would minimal, if any at all. Having three lanes leading onto a roundabout with only two exits will simply result in people abusing the road layout and will try and be first across the roundabout, unless there is some kind of raised kerb to prevent this it will 100% happen.

Giraffe · Oct 4, 2018

PoG said:
See for yourself http://194.165.12.116/NorthgatePublicDocs/02129222.pdf. I'm not sure if this will be an improvement or not.

Can't see that making a significant difference. It's fine if you are wanting to turn off the A27 but it's not going to make much difference to anyone travelling East or West as most of the traffic just flows through it.

Can you imagine the carnage on the A27 when they are building the new roundabout. Diversion through the airport maybe? More likely down through Lancing and along the A259 through Shoreham?

PoG · Oct 4, 2018

Giraffe said:
Can't see that making a significant difference. It's fine if you are wanting to turn off the A27 but it's not going to make much difference to anyone travelling East or West as most of the traffic just flows through it.

Can you imagine the carnage on the A27 when they are building the new roundabout. Diversion through the airport maybe? More likely down through Lancing and along the A259 through Shoreham?

I think they suggested building it in sections, possibly with lane reduction. Either way I agree it will be carnage.

The Clamp · Oct 4, 2018

LamieRobertson said:
Is this the building you are referring too? fits in nicely with its surroundings

View attachment 101034

It’s just awful isn’t it. How did this get through!?

The Clamp · Oct 4, 2018

Triggaaar said:
You could say that about 90% of developments. Most of us are living in houses built by a landowner who was accused of being greedy.

Look at the Brighton Road development in Shoreham. Sorry but it’s just wrong. I do get your point but there has to be middle ground. Just look at it.

The Large One · Oct 4, 2018

andy1980 said:
I don't know if it's the right decision for Shoreham or lancing, but I'm sure it's the right decision for the club.

They obviously believe that the roundabout will allow traffic to flow better on the A27 and that if they don't build there then someone else would. So why do loads of people think they are wrong? Or is it just the IKEA that is causing the problem?

The original feeling locally was one of rampant NIMBYism - traffic, flooding, undesirables due to affordable housing etc. Then the legal arguments were made that - in line with the Local Plan - this site was earmarked for housing. Then IKEA came on board, and traffic, low-paid, unskilled jobs attracting the wrong sort of people was put about.

Then cyclists, who would prefer to keep the psychotically dangerous Sussex Pad junction, started howling. Then people with nothing to do with the airport started whining about airspace and helicopter training.

The developers have mitigated every single concern. The traffic flow will be improved, cyclists have a new route to cross the A27 (even though the opponents lied about that), the flooding issues will be dealt with and maintained, IKEA pay the Living Wage (rather than the government's 'Living Wage'), and offer training and opportunities.

There is also the contradictory argument put about that the developers - Brighton & Hove Albion - are nothing more than greedy charlatans, with the same opponents making the counter-argument that the project is not financially viable.

Last night, pretty much every argument against the scheme was a lesson in life-raft clinging. If they had genuine concerns about the site that were not mitigated, they did not raise them. Instead - and I use the chair of Lancing Parish Council as being the worst - they used hysteria ("I live in South Lancing, and I am scared - literally scared stiff - of this development"), fanciful claims which were not tested, and a sense of being disingenuous to the point of lying ("I represent all of Lancing...") in their opposition.

One of the councillors who voted against it did so on the principle that 'a better application might come along...', as if that was a reason on its own to refuse permission (it isn't).

My take is that I am not a rampant supporter of the project, though new housing is very much needed, but I never heard or saw a good enough argument to object to it either.

The Clamp · Oct 4, 2018

And there’s four more of those going up. It breaks my heart.

surrey jim · Oct 4, 2018

What is the time frame on when works are likely to start?

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